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Topic: Dick Giordano regrets "Grim and Gritty" (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post ReplyPost New Topic
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John Byrne
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Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
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Posted: 12 November 2009 at 6:13am | IP Logged | 1  

What kind of scenario do you envision where Batman is incapable of
defeating Galactus?

••

One in which Batman is a mortal man who relies on his wits and physical
prowess, while Galactus is a cosmic god.

The "my guy can beat anybody" line of thinking is one of the things that has
messed up superhero comics in recent years.

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John Byrne
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Grumpy Old Guy

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Posted: 12 November 2009 at 6:19am | IP Logged | 2  

Who watches the Watchmen? Well, you know what? Nobody should NEED
to.

++

The question was worth asking. But it didn't need to become the only
question.

••

The question is "worth asking" only if we think it is "worth asking" why
Pooh doesn't devour Piglet, why the Mad Hatter isn't being treated for
mercury poisoning, why Harry Potter isn't using his magic to make
Hermione his sex slave, etc, etc.

The real question is one of context. Superheroes in the real world would
be vigilantes, and vigilantes tend to fall victim to all the usual human
foibles. But superheroes don't live in the real world, and as such are
subjected only to such foibles as the writers assigned to them inject. Stan
Lee brought "realism" to superheroes in the 1960s, but he knew just how
far to go. Modern writers, it seems, do not.

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Chris Geary
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Posted: 12 November 2009 at 8:14am | IP Logged | 3  

Over the years I've come to think that the modern mode of comic writing (and art in some respects) it's a bit of a reaction of the notion that 'comics are for kids' attitude. A lot of the people who get into the industry have to put up with a lot of crap from 'civilians'  who think that they're mentally challenged for wanting to read comics. Therefore, make them 'mature' by throwing in tits and swearing and suddenly you can justify your chosen occupation.

Tits and swearing is fine, if you're into that sort of thing, but it's best left out of mainstream superhero books.

Watchmen and DKR becoming known outside of the usual comic circles has only cemented the idea into those of little brains and imagination.  Both were supposed to be a one shot deal.  Not a mission statement for the future.  Those involved with the creation of those works have moved on, shame the most of the industry can't do the same. 
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Joe Smith
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Posted: 12 November 2009 at 9:19am | IP Logged | 4  

Remember the issues of Batman\Detective with Nocturna\Crisis?  

The sky was boiling red, and Batman could do nothing about it, and understood he was powerless.  He was limited to what HE could do, and was content to save his girlfriend from what he could save her from, and keep his streets clean.

I don't remember reading him say, "I know how to fix this."

He'd do the same when Galactus arrives.
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Arc Carlton
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Posted: 12 November 2009 at 9:34am | IP Logged | 5  

I would like to hear one credible scenerio where Batman beats Galactus.

____________________

Alfred helps Batman. They make a wonderful dinner, Galactus is satisfied and then he leaves .

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Martin Redmond
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Posted: 12 November 2009 at 10:50am | IP Logged | 6  

Batman could set things in motion to trap Galactus or something using his mad networking skills.

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Marcus Hiltz
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Posted: 12 November 2009 at 11:15am | IP Logged | 7  

What kind of scenario do you envision where Batman is incapable of
defeating Galactus?

Every scenario I envision has Batman incapable of defeating Galactus.

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William Lukash
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Posted: 12 November 2009 at 11:30am | IP Logged | 8  

What would be considered cheating, for Batman?   Intentionally killing somebody to prevent them from committing another crime.  Using an unwilling innocent person to get to the bad guy.  That's all I can think of at the moment.  Batman has been known for using all means necessary to take down a crook.  Why would any scientific gadget or deception be considered cheating all of a sudden?  I guess he has an entire belt full of cheating.

Edited by William Lukash on 12 November 2009 at 11:30am
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John Byrne
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Posted: 12 November 2009 at 11:39am | IP Logged | 9  

To call it "cheating" when Batman uses his natural skills and weapons is like
saying a gold medalist at the Olympics "cheated" by performing at the top of
his/her game (without chemical enhancements).

A glaring example of Batman cheating can be found in THE DARK KNIGHT
RETURNS, in which he calls out Superman for a "fair fight" and then arranges
to zap him with kryptonite radiation before he gets to the appointed
meeting ground.

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Petter Myhr Ness
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Posted: 12 November 2009 at 12:10pm | IP Logged | 10  

Meaning that by Miller's account, Batman would chose to fight Superman like Lex Luthor would. 
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Michael Todd
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Posted: 12 November 2009 at 12:19pm | IP Logged | 11  

This is another reason why I stopped reading Batman titles after Crisis on Infinite Earths.
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Ian M. Palmer
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Posted: 12 November 2009 at 1:03pm | IP Logged | 12  

Who watches the Watchmen? Well, you know what? Nobody should NEED
to.

++

The question was worth asking. But it didn't need to become the only
question.

••

The question is "worth asking" only if we think it is "worth asking" why
Pooh doesn't devour Piglet, why the Mad Hatter isn't being treated for
mercury poisoning, why Harry Potter isn't using his magic to make
Hermione his sex slave, etc, etc.

The real question is one of context. Superheroes in the real world would
be vigilantes, and vigilantes tend to fall victim to all the usual human
foibles. But superheroes don't live in the real world, and as such are
subjected only to such foibles as the writers assigned to them inject. Stan
Lee brought "realism" to superheroes in the 1960s, but he knew just how
far to go. Modern writers, it seems, do not.

 

If the Watchmen characters had existed previously and still had an ongoing continuity, your comparisons would be valid. However, the characters were (in the end) created specifically for the story, and even if the Charlton characters had been used, they weren't current at the time and their world would presumably have been kept separated from the main DC Universe for the story.

Watchmen didn't rewrite existing characters or their world, as your Pooh and Potter comparisons would, so the comparisons aren't really relevant. I agree with you that creators shouldn't have turned almost the whole superhero landscape into Watchmen-wannabe-world; I disagree with you if you're saying Watchmen should never have been made.

If Watchmen had featured the JLA in main continuity, I'd think it was wrong - just as I think the recent Crises, Sins Past, The Other and Civil War were all wrong.

IMP.

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