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Stephen Robinson Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 5835
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Posted: 10 November 2009 at 6:22pm | IP Logged | 1
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Would an artist drawing Spider-Man with an undeniably red and black costume constitute a "new" costume or merely creative license?
I prefer red and black, as I think red and blue are Superman's colors!
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Michael Penn Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 April 2006 Location: United States Posts: 12703
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Posted: 10 November 2009 at 6:36pm | IP Logged | 2
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...there are those who have argued that Storm's original costume was, indeed, white. **** Perhaps if Ororo had been called Black Storm, ...
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Joe Hollon Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 08 May 2004 Location: United States Posts: 13697
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Posted: 10 November 2009 at 6:42pm | IP Logged | 3
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There's a quote somewhere from Ditko where he describes the intent of Spider-Man's costume to be a dark orange rather than red....which is rather strange I think. I'll try to find it later.
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Koroush Ghazi Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 October 2009 Location: Australia Posts: 1681
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Posted: 10 November 2009 at 6:48pm | IP Logged | 4
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The issue regarding Spider-Man's costume is a bit unique, since he is now one of Marvel's most recognized mainstream characters, almost a corporate logo of sorts, and it would be marketing suicide to change his costume color. Otherwise I personally wouldn't mind seeing it return to a black, since black and red are colors which occur naturally on spiders, whereas the current shade of blue is not!
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Keith Thomas Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 06 April 2009 Location: United States Posts: 3082
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Posted: 26 November 2009 at 5:12am | IP Logged | 5
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Looks like they're getting it right with the latest toys
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Carmen Bernardo Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 08 August 2006 Location: United States Posts: 3666
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Posted: 26 November 2009 at 6:22am | IP Logged | 6
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Having stumbled into this thread after seeing it pop back up every now and then, I've decided to leave my two cents at the door... I'm with those who argue the blue highlights due to the limitations of the comicbook color palette and printing materials at the time in which the characters (be they Spider-Man or Black Panther or Superman) were introduced in publication. At least until the introduction of higher quality Baxter paper during the mid-1980s, comics used -- what, 64 combinations of process red, blue and yellow? Even after the expansion of the palette to 126 colors or so, there was quite a bit of "mud", as professionals would put it. The default highlight color for black remained... dark blue. For this reason, I guess I'm like Terry Austin in JB's earier reply: Fred Flintstone, not George Jetson. Yet, when I began designing certain characters for my own comicbook concepts and artwork within the last decade or so, I've come to look to photographic references and can use either primarily blue or red highlights for those black hairs. Case in point: Mary Jane Watson. Nearly every pic of MJ that I've seen throughout her appearances in Spider-Man comics has her with a darker red (almost a maroon or brick-red) highlight to her hair, which is drawn with lots of black areas in it. I guess this adds a "Red or Black" wrinkle to the whole debate. My guess is that MJ is really a very dark auburn with very shiny hair. The character that I created is a Japanese teenager who adopted fashion of applying a slight bleaching effect to her hair so that it'd look the same: reddish highlights in very dark hair. It was a fashion adopted by many Japanese women during the 1990s (the rumor being that they soaked their hair in soda-pop to bleach out the dark pigments). Hence, the abundance of hot redheads in Japanese animated serials and comics.
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Robert S. Huckaby Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 September 2007 Posts: 71
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Posted: 26 November 2009 at 7:36am | IP Logged | 7
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Lars Johansson Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 June 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 6113
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Posted: 26 November 2009 at 8:20am | IP Logged | 8
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Even after the expansion of the palette to 126 colors or so, there was quite a bit of "mud", as professionals would put it. The default highlight color for black remained... dark blue. I disagree completely. When they intouduced color film in the theatres in Sweden they were told to change everything. But in fact, when color movies were starting to look good again, that's when they started to shoot in "black and white". You should not change the blue highlights beacause of a new quality paper. But you should check how much color ink the paper will suck up. A toilet paper excuse me will suck up too much ink, while a glossy paper will suck up less.
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Christopher Hart Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 30 August 2009 Posts: 132
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Posted: 26 November 2009 at 8:23am | IP Logged | 9
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Christopher Hart Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 30 August 2009 Posts: 132
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Posted: 26 November 2009 at 8:24am | IP Logged | 10
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Here is a very early Ditko pin up of Spider-Man. He, the costume designer, even drew him blue.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133279
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Posted: 26 November 2009 at 8:26am | IP Logged | 11
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Nearly every pic of MJ that I've seen throughout her appearances in Spider-Man comics has her with a darker red (almost a maroon or brick- red) highlight to her hair, which is drawn with lots of black areas in it. I guess this adds a "Red or Black" wrinkle to the whole debate. My guess is that MJ is really a very dark auburn with very shiny hair.•• Close enough. Funny thing about this is, I have never seen or read anyone arguing that MJ has black hair. When Kirsten Dunst dyed her hair red for the Spider- Man movies, there were, so far as I was aware, no outraged fans demanding that she dye it black. There are some places, it seems, where people can read the highlight color and know it to be the "true" color, yet some places where they can't. Here, Superman's hair springs to mind. I really have encountered people arguing quite strenuously, and despite all logic, that he has blue hair. Their brains seem unable to flip back and forth between two "settings" -- Here the highlight color is the true color, here it isn't. Where it gets really crazy, tho, as noted upthread, is when we find people insisting Storm's original costume was white, despite the fact that 90% of it was black. What puzzles me, again as noted, is why I, as a kid starting out reading comics, was able to make these intuitive leaps -- Superman has black hair, the X-Men wore black and yellow "school uniforms", Spider-Man's costume was black and red, etc -- without any prompting. I simply knew. Many times, I think there is a genuine perversity at work. Consciously or unconsciously, those who argue the wrong side of the point do so deliberately so as to "stand out from the herd mentality." Well, y'know, it's generally a good idea to go with the herd, when the herd is right!
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133279
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Posted: 26 November 2009 at 8:30am | IP Logged | 12
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Here is a very early Ditko pin up of Spider-Man.He, the costume designer, even drew him blue. •• Actually, he drew him white. Ditko was not the colorist. And here's an even EARLIER drawing of the character, also by Ditko. Ditko dropped the blacks to save time, which is the same reason Batman's costume changed from black to "blue". That page neatly demonstrates Ditko's original intent, in fact. Parker's trousers are left open for color, except where in shadow. As it happenes, the colorist picked blue. Could have picked just about any shade, but here it serves to show that Parker is wearing blue trousers, while Spider- Man's costume is black. Here's a point to ponder: since my earliest days at Marvel, whenever I have drawn Spider-Man I have laid in the heavy blacks. This has not been "fixed" by the inkers. Why not, if it's wrong?
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