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Rich Rice
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 08 April 2008
Posts: 195
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| Posted: 09 November 2009 at 4:49am | IP Logged | 1
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Jack may have done the pencils, but the inks -and spotted blacks- are Steve Ditko.
Jack would not render physiology in such a naturalist manner. -To paraphrase a popular movie, "Jack's pencils were not traced." They were finished.
And beautifully finished.
One of many feathers in the cap of Stan, The Man. He was a phenomenal Art Director. The guy had great instincts.
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Brad Krawchuk
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 June 2006
Location: Canada
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| Posted: 09 November 2009 at 4:51am | IP Logged | 2
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Is there really anyone out there dumb enough to think Superman has blue hair??
---
I realize JB already answered your question Marcus, but when I was reading through the thread I thought of something. Take the first nine words of your question -
"Is there really anyone out there dumb enough to..."
- and no matter what you put after that, the answer is always yes.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 09 November 2009 at 5:51am | IP Logged | 3
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The Spidey costume on Amazing Fantasy 15 is NOT red and black. •• How about this one? 
++ The drawing has a fill of black, simplifying shadow and half-tone to one
graphic statement. But that does not mean it's black. •• So, again, T'Challa's costume here is NOT black? 
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Brad Teschner
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| Posted: 09 November 2009 at 11:13am | IP Logged | 4
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if Spider-Man's costume is supposed to be blue, then why doesn't it match these guy's? and why does it match their black gloves???
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Dave Braun
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Joined: 12 July 2009
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| Posted: 09 November 2009 at 11:14am | IP Logged | 5
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I always assumed that blue was the default generic highlight color for a black costume - a costume that was a dark color often had heavy blacks with a colored highlight, but there is always more color/more highlight than black costumes. A highlight to me indicates a sheen to the costume. A pure black costume with a 'flat' sheen, or, no sheen, would have little or no highlight. On a black costume the highlight color should change according to the lighting in the environment, but usually a default blue was used. Likewise, even a deep color that is very close to black should have a different highlight color according to the light around it.
The T'Challa costume above reads pure black to me, but if you add a colored highlight and it is consistent regardless of the environment it reads as either black or an extremely dark nearly black color. The Spider-Man above *in JBs post* to me is either black or a blue so dark it is nearly black, but probably black because it is mostly black with a small highlight. If there was more color and less black I would say absolutely it is blue.
Edited by Dave Braun on 09 November 2009 at 11:14am
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Greg Reeves
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| Posted: 09 November 2009 at 1:11pm | IP Logged | 6
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QUOTE:
| To define this costume as black, you'd have to use gray as the intermediary between the deepest black and the rim-lit planes, printed as blue. |
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Agree with this completely. I think the Black Panther example above is much better at suggesting black than Spider-Man's ever was, because the white appears gray. Here's a good example: check out the early color attempts of Spidey's alien costume compared to the latest "Back in Black" storyline (the ones illustrated by Ron Garney). Here, the highlights are always gray (unless there is a strong blue light of course).
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Brad Teschner
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| Posted: 09 November 2009 at 2:43pm | IP Logged | 7
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Spider-Man's alien costume was obviously blue & white:
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Rich Rice
Byrne Robotics Member
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| Posted: 09 November 2009 at 3:18pm | IP Logged | 8
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Not black.
If you follow that line, Peter is wearing black trousers in panel 5, as it has the same graphic information as his costume. Black in shadow, blue in the light. No indication of half lights in either, so what's good for the one is good for the other. -Is Peter wearing black trousers or not?
Graphic statement and describing light /form relationships explains the heavy use of spotted blacks.
Panel 6. Peter is standing out of the source of light. A lit room, presumably lit by daylight streaming in through his bedroom window. Being out of that light, he's gone into shadow. In film, or with modern computer coloring, one could go into the nuance of lower value without a loss of form color. But in this case, 'shadow' is simplified graphically by the use of black. He is wearing a deep blue costume that is in shadow, taking the value of his costume down from a value 2 blue to perhaps a value 1.5 blue in shadow.
As to the other panels... it's simply a graphic statement. There is so little rendered, Ditko pushed the graphic quality of the image by spotting as much black as possible. You could go through the same issue you referenced and find panels without the spotted black arms.
The easiest way to 'see' why his costume is blue would be to add a mid-value light effect to Peter's costume. Black turns gray as it turns toward the light.
A dark blue turns 'black' as it turns toward shadow, but shines blue as it turns toward the light. Photoshop a half-light and you'll see what I'm saying.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 09 November 2009 at 3:45pm | IP Logged | 9
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Not black.If you follow that line, Peter is wearing black trousers in panel 5, as it has
the same graphic information as his costume. •• Oh, I see. You're DELIBERATELY missing the point. Sorry. I thought we were
having an intelligent conversation.
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Brian Miller
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| Posted: 09 November 2009 at 3:49pm | IP Logged | 10
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Spider-Man's alien costume was obviously blue & white: **************** Obviously. 
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Greg Woronchak
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| Posted: 09 November 2009 at 3:49pm | IP Logged | 11
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If you follow that line, Peter is wearing black trousers in panel 5, as it has the same graphic information as his costume. Actually, the trousers are the inverse of the costume, if that makes sense.
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Brian Miller
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| Posted: 09 November 2009 at 3:51pm | IP Logged | 12
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Black turns gray as it turns toward the light.
A dark blue turns 'black' as it turns toward shadow, but shines blue as it turns toward the light. Photoshop a half-light and you'll see what I'm saying.
************************** Except they didn't color things that way in the 60's and there was no such thing as Photoshop in the 60's.
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