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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132629
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| Posted: 16 August 2009 at 11:48am | IP Logged | 1
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And then there's the kitty-kat. . . . .
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Paulo Pereira
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 24 April 2006
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| Posted: 16 August 2009 at 11:50am | IP Logged | 2
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And now there's the 2000's Beast. Groan.
Anyway, one of the reasons I like the blue Beast...
Couldn't have moments like this otherwise.
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Francesco Vanagolli
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 03 June 2005
Location: Italy
Posts: 3130
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| Posted: 16 August 2009 at 12:02pm | IP Logged | 3
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Matt Hawes:
QUOTE:
| The 1990's Beast which most fans of this generation first saw in the
FOX cartoon series, who had the basic appearance of the 1970's furry
Beast, but with Wolverine muttonchops, and he was back to being an
intellectual speaking in big words. |
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That's my category. I first saw the Beast in the X-Men animated show, but I didn't like the character.
Despite my young age, the first Beast I saw in comics was the original one, and as always happened to me with most of the Marvel characters from the House of Ideas' early years, it was hard to think that he was the same version I knew*.
Anyway, even if I knew Hank as an X-Men member, I always thought he really belonged to the Avengers. Even now I'0d like to see him with Earth's mightiest heroes!
* Uglier Thing, "shapeless" Human Torch, skinnier Spider-Man, Daredevil with a yellow costume... I couldn't believe my superheroes were so different when they debuted!
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Matt Hawes
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 16464
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| Posted: 16 August 2009 at 12:20pm | IP Logged | 4
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John Byrne wrote:
| ...And then there's the kitty-kat. . . . . |
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Ugh! I think I forgot that because I wanted it to be forgotten.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 16 August 2009 at 12:21pm | IP Logged | 5
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I couldn't believe my superheroes were so different when they debuted!•• Neither could Marvel! Sometimes they used to have stuff redrawn in the reprints! Note how the Torch was redrawn in this page from FF1 reprinted in the first FF Annual. Especially note the last panel, where his feet* become his face!
* Kirby may have intended the original to be the back of Johnny's head,
since even then his feet would have been surrounded by his flame trail --
but we'll never know, now!
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James Woodcock
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 September 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 7699
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| Posted: 16 August 2009 at 12:37pm | IP Logged | 6
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Poor Kurt! He had to deal with living in a circus where his physical differences went mostly unnoticed!
************************************************************ ****************************
You're kidding right? Yes he could survive within the confines of the circus but there was no way he could just go walking around in the street.
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Paulo Pereira
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 24 April 2006
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| Posted: 16 August 2009 at 12:41pm | IP Logged | 7
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James W. wrote:
| You're kidding right? Yes he could survive within the confines of the
circus but there was no way he could just go walking around in the
street. |
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Good point. When Prof. X first discovered him he was being lynched by an angry mob.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 16 August 2009 at 12:43pm | IP Logged | 8
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Poor Kurt! He had to deal with living in a circus where his physical differences went mostly unnoticed!++ You're kidding right? Yes he could survive within the confines of the circus but there was no way he could just go walking around in the street. •• And that contradicts my statement -- how? One of the Great Traditions (and like all such, probably mostly fiction) is that Circus Folk Stick Together. The Circus is One Big Family. If he had really grown up in a Circus, Kurt would most likely have thought it was the outsiders who were weird. They were all so. . . ordinary! Remember -- do not superimpose real world standards on this stuff. That's what Chris is doing in that panel -- and it's missing the point of the kind of "realism" Stan and the gang brought to superhero comics. When we first saw Kurt he was being chased by a throng of Villagers with Stakes and Torches™, but that was because he had ventured outside his normally safe environment. It was not something he had to deal with every day -- as Scott did with his eyebeams. (It was also because that scene was being written by Len Wein, who is a great believer in getting the Point across as quickly and clearly as possible!)
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Matt Hawes
Byrne Robotics Member
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 16 August 2009 at 12:45pm | IP Logged | 9
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John Byrne wrote:
| ...Especially note the last panel, where his feet* become his face!... |
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I always thought it was Torch's left hand, that one small piece being his thumb.
One thing I noticed Marvel doing in the 1970's was whenever there was a retelling of a character's origin, in most instances the character was drawn to match how he or she appeared in the current comics of the period. For instance, a retelling of the Fantastic Four's origin would have Sue Storm with a modern hairdo, Johnny would look more like his streamlined appearance and not a bonfire, and the Thing would be all rocky and not lumpy.
One thing I liked about JB is that when he retold origins the characters looked as they had originally. In fact, I think JB really started the trend of being faithful to the look of the characters when retelling the origins of the Marvel characters (Note: I am NOT counting revamps, just retellings).
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James Woodcock
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 September 2007
Location: United Kingdom
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| Posted: 16 August 2009 at 12:49pm | IP Logged | 10
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Yeah, I can see that. I was just thinking of how isolated he would have been, never being able to venture outside the circus, but as you say, how much would he have done so anyway?
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132629
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| Posted: 16 August 2009 at 12:55pm | IP Logged | 11
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In another thread we have a discussion going right now about how it used to be -- and perhaps still should be -- enough to explain the goings on in superhero comics by simply saying "because". "Why does that happen?" "Because!"One of the earliest instances I remember of this one going off the rails was a retelling of the FF's origin -- I think it was by Roy Thomas -- in which the Thing used a mental-scanner gizmo of Reed's to "project" his memory of the events, and everything was updated. This prompted Ben to note that that was because he was viewing things thru the lens of his current perceptions and attitudes. And yet, if Stan had been the one retelling the origin, you know he would have simply updated it, boom, no explanation offered. That was the way the Old Guard used to do things. Go thru all the Superman comics published from the Golden thru the Silver Ages, and you won't find any explanations of how Krypton changed from an Earth-sized planet where everybody had super powers to a giant world where nobody did. You won't find an explanation of how Superman's super-strong muscles could allow him to leap into the air ... and stay there! These things just were. And then, some time in the Seventies as I recall, it was as if someone flipped a switch, and suddenly we needed to have stories that told us why Clark Kent always wore a blue suit!
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Paulo Pereira
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Joined: 24 April 2006
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| Posted: 16 August 2009 at 12:55pm | IP Logged | 12
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I think the panel Ray posted needs a bit more context. Kurt was responding to the statement Scott makes below:
And yes, he was safe within the circus, but as established in his first appearance, it wasn't somewhere he wanted to be.
Edited by Paulo Pereira on 16 August 2009 at 12:57pm
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Topic Closed)
