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Sam Karns
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 December 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 7624
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| Posted: 07 August 2009 at 12:28pm | IP Logged | 1
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Sean, this is not an attack on you, but what about the details made about Batman's cape in Batman Begins. Nolan and company couldn't have figured out a way to conjure up another bogus techi-talk for the costume as well instead the armor non sense which we all know is made of rubber?
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 07 August 2009 at 12:41pm | IP Logged | 2
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I saw an interview with {James Cameron} somewhere (can't find it here) that chalked it up to a production/filming issue -- he just couldn't explain why those bulky webshooters disappeared under a skin-tight costume…•• Yet within his own "universe" he has no problem establishing that "only living tissue" can be transported thru time, whilst in the same movie sending a mechanical robot back by wrapping it in flesh. How come the Terminator didn't arrive in the Past as an empty skin sack?
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 07 August 2009 at 12:43pm | IP Logged | 3
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Comicbooks and movies are different beasts, with different conventions and considerations. What may be an acceptable leap from one frame to the next may appear to be a continuity error in a motion picture. What may look menacing when drawn may look laughable when it's an actor in a costume. And what may be a cool few panels of fun pseudo-scientific invention in one may be an unjustifiably long few minutes of screen time in another. •• All of which applies to the biological webspinners… how?
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 07 August 2009 at 12:57pm | IP Logged | 4
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There is a curious dichotomy at work in the minds of some folk in Hollywood. As noted elsewhere, Sam Raimi gives Spider-Man biological webbing because, since he could not make mechanical webshooters when he was sixteen, he thinks the audience will not find Parker being able to do so "believable" -- yet he expects them to find it completely believable that Parker can make multiple iterations of that fancy non-Spandex, non-Danskin costume.The audience is too rooted in reality, apparently, to buy mechanical webshooters (except literally, at the toy store), but will have no problem with gallons of web fluid spewing out of Parker's arms and, apparently, being instantly replenished. You know, I am firmly opposed to the all-too-often seen excuse that superheroes are basically a Get Out of Jail Free card when it comes to what is and is not possible or believable in comics, but it seems to me that when our starting point is the bite of a genetically engineered spider transferring the spider's abilities to a human being, something like mechanical webspinners (which, as noted, do exist in the real world) are not even remotely a stretch.
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Kevin Hagerman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 15 April 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 18016
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| Posted: 07 August 2009 at 1:01pm | IP Logged | 5
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Yet within his own "universe" he has no problem establishing that "only living tissue" can be transported thru time, whilst in the same movie sending a mechanical robot back by wrapping it in flesh. How come the Terminator didn't arrive in the Past as an empty skin sack?
-------------------
And even if we give him THAT, the Robert Patrick terminator was all metal.
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Paulo Pereira
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 24 April 2006
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| Posted: 07 August 2009 at 1:07pm | IP Logged | 6
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Sean B. wrote:
| ...he just couldn't explain why those bulky
webshooters disappeared under a skin-tight costume, and there was no way
he was going to do something like this: |
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I don't get the "bulky" argument at all. Did he think the things had to actually be functional?
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Sean Blythe
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 13 July 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 342
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| Posted: 07 August 2009 at 1:26pm | IP Logged | 7
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JB Wrote: All of which applies to the biological webspinners… how?
_______________
I'm not saying AT ALL that it was the right choice to make. Just that I can
understand if there were indeed production issues involved in translating
a pen-and-ink costume into a "real" one.
Not mind reading below, just positing how this could possibly have gone.
***
Raimi: The bulky wrist things are killin' me. I don't want them bulging
under the costume, and I don't want him to have to wear them all the
time. Where do they go when he's not in costume?
Designer: We could make them small? Like nano-something-or-other,
or...
Raimi: Then where does he keep all the web fluid? On a belt? Because I
don't want a belt.
Designer: He could have like a tube that comes up from some micro
container, or...
Raimi: Yeah, what 16 year old is gonna be able to cobble together nano
webshooters with micro tanks and web fluid? Plus, I really want that first
scene in the bedroom to have the webbing joke. It's no good if he wakes
up and he's just all bulky and it takes me 6 scenes to explain his powers -
- I don't have time for that. He's gotta have something that says "Spider"
right away. Let's just go with the little spikes that come out of his wrist
naturally... he's got those little spiny things on his fingers anyway, so why
wouldn't he have one on his wrist?
***
Okay, I realize I've just posted the total "Oliver Stone's JFK" version of the
whole issue, and that Fake Sam Raimi above just made an argument that's
every bit as egotistical and logic-free as "I couldn't do that at 16, so Peter
can't either." (A film director with an ego that defies logic? Never!)
I'm just answering the question of how it might be feasible that the whole
thing stemmed from "How do we make this work efficiently on film?"
edit to clarify one thing
Edited by Sean Blythe on 07 August 2009 at 1:30pm
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Paulo Pereira
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 24 April 2006
Posts: 15539
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| Posted: 07 August 2009 at 1:32pm | IP Logged | 8
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Is this really so hard to believe?
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Pete Carrubba
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 June 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 2767
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| Posted: 07 August 2009 at 1:52pm | IP Logged | 9
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And even if we give him THAT, the Robert Patrick terminator was all metal.
Well, I know this wasn't explained in the movie, but I always wondered, if the T-1000 was mimetic poly-alloy, why did he show up naked?
I figured that the T-1000 took on the form of an endoskeleton, had living tissue generated around it, then went back in time. Once there, it shed the skin and took the identity of a police officer.
But the beginning of the film, where both terminators are introduced, was meant to have the audience assume Arnold was the bad guy again until he said, "Get down!" to John Connor. The trailers ruined that surprise by revealing this plot point before anyone saw the film, which is why I hid it here in case someone hasn't seen it yet.
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Monte Gruhlke
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 03 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 3303
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| Posted: 09 August 2009 at 10:54am | IP Logged | 10
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The organic webshooters are easily overcome - in the next movie, an accident closes up the shooters, and Peter is forced to come up with an alternative... the artificial ones. It could be an underlying secondary (and comedic) challenge throughout the film as Peter perfects his fluid. He could even come up with the spider-tracer at this time as well.
Parker's smarts and invetiveness were crucial to the Lee-era Spider-Man. When physical violence wasn't the answer, his brains were. Parker's potential to be a scientific great is often muted by his need to be Spider-Man, but should neverless be diminished in any capacity.
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Shaun Barry
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 08 December 2008
Location: United States
Posts: 6896
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| Posted: 09 August 2009 at 11:52am | IP Logged | 11
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I, for one, always loved the issues (or circumstances) where Spider-Man's webshooters would run out of fluid. It always added that extra jeopardy to contend with, and Parker usually had to rely on his smarts to get himself out of those situations.
I seem to recall they used that scenario exactly once (in SPIDER-MAN 2, I think?), but they never even explained why his self-replenishing organic webshooters ran out in the first place!
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Jason Schulman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 08 July 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 2473
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| Posted: 12 August 2009 at 10:26am | IP Logged | 12
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Why waste time selling pictures to JJJ for pocket change when he could be a rich inventor…•• Apparently you have no idea how long it takes to patent and copyright an invention -- even assuming you have a lawyer who will do the work for free, up front. Which makes perfect sense when we're talking about teenager Peter Parker. But as JB has noted, Peter in the comics is now in his late 20s, and the fact that he hasn't hung up the webs (in a world -- an NYC even -- full of super-heroes) and become a successful scientist really does defy logic.
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