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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133324
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Posted: 07 July 2009 at 8:25pm | IP Logged | 1
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Clearly you are not "clever" enough for this kind of humor, Nathan.
Lucky, really.
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Tom French Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 07 January 2005 Location: United States Posts: 4154
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Posted: 08 July 2009 at 4:54am | IP Logged | 2
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...the idea that a Tarzan raised by apes would naturally be sexually attracted to apes and as he reached puberty he'd try to have sex with the female apes, so he had the brilliant idea to have Aquaman be raised by dolphins and fall in love with one.
Clearly, Peter David believes sexuality is a learned trait.
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Trevor Smith Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 September 2006 Location: Canada Posts: 3542
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Posted: 08 July 2009 at 5:21am | IP Logged | 3
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**And even so, is this an eight yr old's comic?**
Someone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe
that scene came from the first issue of the direct sales
only Titans series, and was distributed without the CCA
stamp. I think the understanding was that Titans, the
Legion direct series, and The Omega Men were all considered
"Mature" titles at the time, so really, it was not an eight
year old's comic. Now whether or not the Titans or Legion
should have *ever* gone that route is another discussion
altogether...
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133324
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Posted: 08 July 2009 at 5:41am | IP Logged | 4
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Someone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that scene came from the first issue of the direct sales only Titans series, and was distributed without the CCA stamp. Which is, of course, the first thing people check for when they see something that looks like a superhero comic, feels like a superhero comic, smells like a superhero comic
Those different versions, which DC not so subtly referred to as the "hardcover" and "softcover" versions -- "hard" and "soft", get it? -- crossed an important line, one which DC has continued to work hard to erase. Comicbooks can cover every kind of material, just as do movies. But characters that begin targeted for a specific demographic should not jump into other demographics. Especially not while continuing to be published for the original demographic. This is akin to when DC started shunting various characters off to Vertigo -- Swamp Thing, for instance -- where they could be treated in an "adult" manner ---- while still appearing in the crossovers with characters that were not "adult". Again, it's the fanzine mentality that has consumed the superhero genre. We want to be taken seriously as art and literature --- but we also want to make jokes about whether the Thing has a rocky wee-wee.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133324
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Posted: 08 July 2009 at 5:47am | IP Logged | 5
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...the idea that a Tarzan raised by apes would naturally be sexually attracted to apes and as he reached puberty he'd try to have sex with the female apes, so he had the brilliant idea to have Aquaman be raised by dolphins and fall in love with one.++ Clearly, Peter David believes sexuality is a learned trait. When I started working on WONDER WOMAN one of the first things I encountered was all the fans who insisted Diana was a lesbian, and that Paradise Island "had to be" a lesbian society (something else Peter David had his comments about*). These were, of course, the same male fans who would absolutely freak out at the merest suggestion that Batman and Robin were anything other than best friends. "These women have been on this island for thousands of years!" they would say. "Of course they have all become lesbians!" "And how long," I would ask, "do you think you'd have to be stuck on an island with a bunch of guys before playin' a few riffs on your buddy's flesh flute started to sound good to you?" No answers. Of course. Because lesbians are coooool, right? But male homosexuals are just gross.
* "Why do you think they call it 'Paradise'?"
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Knut Robert Knutsen Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 September 2006 Posts: 7374
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Posted: 08 July 2009 at 6:11am | IP Logged | 6
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From what I recall of George Perez' run he had an issue where there were guests on Paradise Island, and the subject came up. And there it was said rather matter-of-factly that some of them were lesbians and some of them weren't. I think the main point being that they didn't see either lesbianism or celibacy as something to be ashamed of. So rather than some fantasy where they're all lesbians (or bisexual, which I suppose is the preferred fantasy), they just saw it as a private thing that only mattered to the individual or the two people involved. Which is how it should be, isn't it?
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Tom French Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 07 January 2005 Location: United States Posts: 4154
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Posted: 08 July 2009 at 6:28am | IP Logged | 7
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There's a lovely moment in Disney's THE JUNGLE BOOK (the most un-Kipling version ever), where Mowgli -- a boy raised by wolves -- sees a human girl for the first time as she gathers water outside the man-village. Lame song aside, something in Mowgli awakens and he realizes an attraction to this girl -- a "this is what I've been looking for all along" moment.
In Peter David's version, Mowgli would push her aside and hump her dog.
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Michael Penn Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 April 2006 Location: United States Posts: 12715
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Posted: 08 July 2009 at 6:36am | IP Logged | 8
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Male or female dog?
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Tom French Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 07 January 2005 Location: United States Posts: 4154
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Posted: 08 July 2009 at 6:48am | IP Logged | 9
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Michael -- don't be sick, Mowgli was straight. He'd go for the bitch.
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Peter Martin Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 March 2008 Location: Canada Posts: 15953
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Posted: 08 July 2009 at 6:48am | IP Logged | 10
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Which is how it should be, isn't it?
----------------------------------------------------- - -------;
Personally this question never occurred to me. I've been re-reading the trade version of George's WW run recently and I never once wondered about this. They're not real people. Diana was formed from clay. It has a pantheon of Gods in it. If we can accept these things and that Diana can fly without a real-world explanation, we can accept an island of women without further explanation or elaboration. Especially considering it's just an extension of a strand of pre-existing mythology.
Edited by Peter Martin on 08 July 2009 at 6:49am
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133324
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Posted: 08 July 2009 at 7:40am | IP Logged | 11
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Diana was formed from clay.
In George's version, they all were.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133324
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Posted: 08 July 2009 at 7:43am | IP Logged | 12
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From what I recall of George Perez' run he had an issue where there were guests on Paradise Island, and the subject came up. And there it was said rather matter-of-factly that some of them were lesbians and some of them weren't. I think the main point being that they didn't see either lesbianism or celibacy as something to be ashamed of. If there were, say, 3000 Amazons, statistically there would be something between 30 and 300 lesbians, roughly speaking. The hangup for many readers seemed to be that they should all be lesbians. As if, as Tom French notes, sexuality is learned. Personally, I have never been much for "acquired tastes" of any kind.
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