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Topic: Grandeur? What’s That? (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post ReplyPost New Topic
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John Byrne
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Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
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Posted: 16 July 2009 at 4:52pm | IP Logged | 1  

And, frankly, if I was shooting at Batman, I'd aim that the one part of his body that was clearly not armored -- the lower half of his face!

++

No, you would aim at the emblem/target HIGH CENTER CHEST (especially in this frame) where you have a better chance of hitting the target, even if your shot is left, right, up, or down.

••

Let's imagine for a moment that we live in a world of superheroes. DC Universe, since that's where Batman lives. So we live in a world with Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, the Flash, etc etc etc. Some of these people -- if "people" is the word -- have incredible, superhuman powers. Superman can lift enormous weights and fly. So can Wonder Woman. Green Lantern can make just about anything come out of that ring of his. Flash can run around the world in the time it takes to say it.

Some of these people, as we know from reading their comics, don't have super powers. Batman, Green Arrow, Robin, etc. But the people who share the DC Universe with them don't have access to the comics we read. And d'you think the non-powered folk make a point of announcing it? D'you think the general population of Gotham City knows that Batman is just a superb athlete in a leotard? Or are there urban legends, stories, myths? Batman has been operating for years, even in DC time. He must be more than just a guy in a leotard, right? He's still alive. So, at the very least, that suit must be more than a leotard. It must be, itself "super" in some way. (Always assuming Batman isn't -- and again, would he make a point of telling people that?)

So, I repeat my point: If I was a bad guy and Batman was coming at me, I'd shoot at the only place I can be absolutely sure isn't armored. Will I likely miss? Maybe. But if I shoot somewhere else, and that somewhere else is armored, I'm not going to get a second chance!

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Martin Redmond
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Posted: 16 July 2009 at 5:00pm | IP Logged | 2  

I never liked DD or Batman because I always thought it was stupid that they traveled from one building to the other using a rope. I don't understand why that means of travel never gets questioned as unrealistic.

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Chad Carter
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Posted: 16 July 2009 at 5:01pm | IP Logged | 3  

 

And every couple of weeks, you've got another example of the comic industry going too far, which probably stretches back to 1748. All of which phrased as semi-hysterical ravings, often involving the sexual context of the characters that seems to be a sick fascination of yours.

There comes a point in which a sane man stops reading comics and finds a hobby that doesn't cause him endless aggravation. I can understand a professional complaining about the state of his industry, because it's his livelihood that is being destroyed; but a fan who doesn't enjoy what he's reading/watching is just a masochist.

Robert, you are exactly the reason I continue to complain. If you just ask Eric White or his various pseudonyms, you'll be informed that I'm a "failed writer" who will never be "fit" to lick the muddy tracks of Johns, Morrison, Bendis, ect. It's you and your ilk who cannot seem to understand what the purpose of the comic book is, or how it can be most effectively used.

There were a lot of people in the 1950s who probably thought television was going to be the greatest educational tool of all time. You don't hear anyone say that today, even though there's "good stuff" you can learn from...certainly more channels with more interesting content than ever before. But that "good stuff" is almost completely swamped in utter shite, a tsunami of arrogance and hubris.

Comic books are pretty much in the same boat. There's no way to say to tasteless cretins, "Hey, you do realize comic books are not the movies, right? You do know that excessive violence and sexuality in mainstream comics, the very idea of content ratings for mainstream comics, reeks of the worst corruption of the form we've ever seen? You do know that?"

I mean, how many times can you read about former professionals who brought the superhero to its apex bemoaning what has happened to what was once a legitimate expressive art form, accessible by anyone. A child barely literate to a man who needs a magnifying glass to see the lines, they could pick up a comic book and walk away with something imbedded in their minds, in their very lives.

Just because you, Robert, and others like you think "whatever, it's just comics. Whatever, dude." You're killing the potential of comics, of the form, not just the potential for another stupid goddam Batman story where he's fighting Two-Face again. See, that's why I don't read the goddam Batman...I have grown out of that story, for the most part. The fact that adult readers can't let go, can't see that, is why we have to have goddam Batman vs Two-Face over and over and over, only this time Two-Face is "more" insane than ever and just hacked up Vicki Vale. You, the product of the direct market, are the readers who demand that "this time" the Batman/Two-Face conflict be elevated to meet your adult expectations. You think this doesn't start with the little cuts, the little notions of "well, Batman's costume is getting boring. I think he needs an all-black costume, like the movie!" Which then leads to, "Hm, Bruce Wayne is kind of played out. Let's replace him with somebody else and make a bunch of money from these stupid rubes who are going to buy into it!"

Robert, remember this: I have just as much reason to complain about this unfortunate cultural shift as anyone.  I have my endeavors. I actually ardently believe in the willing suspension of disbelief, of the greatness of a tale told well. I don't have to justify why I am speaking, to you, or "Eric White" or anybody else. I can do it in a Forum, I can do it face to face. I don't have the kind of wormy fear that people have, where they don't really believe in anything and thus they'll believe in everything. I don't believe our entertainment is facile, and meaningless. I don't believe some old Ray Bradbury script on the radio, heard by a child Stephen King hidden terrified on the stairs, has no meaning. These discoveries are what create the next imaginative traditions. Someone will find their entire life in the space of a single short story, or poem, or painting. It's like what the NEA says, only it isn't pretentitious horsesh*t. It's what really happens in the world.

There is no escape from the sophomoric talents and cardboard executives who approve the mediocrity we all suffer with, in our entertainment. What was once an important escape for most people is now a sedative: your mainstream is an idea-killing arena, a place where posturing and attitude is a substitute for talent. Your lack of control, of dedication to something which has real meaning, toward what goes into your cotton-candy brain has created the craven hordes, the consumers who have no scale by which to judge the texture or poignancy of the horsesh*t served on their plate.

So when I say that something like Superman having an S on his belt buckle is a critical blow to the character's integrity, leading to a downward spiral for that character and every lesser character, all the way to the extinguishing of the imaginative flame with BAD IDEAS (tm), then you know I'm saying the S on the belt buckle is the crushed butterfly on the boot of the time traveler who changes all history and creates a world completely dominated by the Axis Powers.

It's about knowing the measure of meaning against horsesh*t, and one thing we do know: You don't know the difference, Robert Walsh.

More's the pity.

 

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John Byrne
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Posted: 16 July 2009 at 5:07pm | IP Logged | 4  

I never liked DD or Batman because I always thought it was stupid that they traveled from one building to the other using a rope. I don't understand why that means of travel never gets questioned as unrealistic.

••

Because they have friends who can fly.

By the way -- it's time for you to stop reading superhero comics. Long past time, probably.

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Kevin Hagerman
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Posted: 16 July 2009 at 5:09pm | IP Logged | 5  

 Martin Richmond wrote:
I never liked DD or Batman because I always thought it was stupid that they traveled from one building to the other using a rope. I don't understand why that means of travel never gets questioned as unrealistic.

-----------------------------

Stranger things have happened.

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William McCormick
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Posted: 16 July 2009 at 5:36pm | IP Logged | 6  

It's you and your ilk who cannot seem to understand what the purpose of the comic book is, or how it can be most effectively used.

*********************

All hail the all knowing Chad! He knows everything there ever was, is or will be to do with comic books. No one can have an opinion that dares disagree with him. All comics today suck. He said so.

Do not disagree or he will smite you where you stand.

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Robert Walsh
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Posted: 16 July 2009 at 5:44pm | IP Logged | 7  

Take a look at all the crap in your post, Chad, and tell me how a belt buckle has anything to do with any of it.

It's just some costumer designer thinking, "you know what would make this look a little cooler" and making a fairly minor adjustment. Then an editor or artist saying, "I liked that, I think I'll use it." Fifteen minutes of googling and I found a half dozen examples of exactly that happening in the earliest portion of these character's history, where things were added or changed in the comic because Hollywood did it first and the people doing the books thought it was a good idea. There are characters who have been completely redesigned to look more like their movie counterparts.

And if comics are anything like television shows, I'm sure they have plenty of moments where they came up with some dreadful idea all on their own and eventually got rid of it, because it just didn't work.

In any creative environment people come up with all sorts of ideas. If they're not constantly adding new elements into the mix, then these characters with stagnant and die fairly quickly. A classic will always stick pretty close to what has traditionally worked, but there's always going to be a bit of pressure to make the odd tweak here and there just to keep it fresh. And maybe that new supporting character becomes a key part of its continued success or becomes a Cousin Oliver.

When I was reading comics in the last time, Superman had long hair. Was that part of the slippery slope or were they just trying something out, knowing that the change was minor enough not to cause any major backlash, while trivial enough to allow them to go back to short hair without any difficulty if they decided it didn't work. And, guess what, he's got short hair again and the character hasn't been forever tainted because he sported a mullet.
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Chad Carter
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Posted: 16 July 2009 at 5:47pm | IP Logged | 8  

 

All comics today suck. He said so.

Incredible waste of breath on your part. Never said that. Not even remotely.

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Martin Redmond
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Posted: 16 July 2009 at 6:35pm | IP Logged | 9  


 QUOTE:
Because they have friends who can fly. By the way -- it's time for you to stop reading superhero comics. Long past time, probably.

I know that. I guess I should've posted my thoughts better. I meant that I never understood why those 2 were deemed more realistic, by people other than me, than, say Green Lantern.


 QUOTE:
Stranger things have happened.

Those criminals better run.



Edited by Martin Redmond on 16 July 2009 at 6:37pm
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Michael Huber
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Posted: 16 July 2009 at 7:16pm | IP Logged | 10  

I never thought about it, but if i was gonna shoot at Batman, I'd use a 10 guage shotgun. Even if he were armored, the sheer force would knock him down/back, and the possibility of hitting somewhere unarmored would be at it's best. But that's thinking too hard.
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Wallace Sellars
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Posted: 16 July 2009 at 7:29pm | IP Logged | 11  

I'd try to run and hide.
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Ron Chevrier
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Posted: 16 July 2009 at 7:57pm | IP Logged | 12  

The only time superheroes getting around the city by rope (or some variation thereof) was in those original Spidey cartoons from the 70's. Holy cow! He passed the same six buildings all the time. That must simultaneously be the most dangerous and most-well protected block in all of New York City. Even as a kid that used to bug the hell out of me.

Edited by Ron Chevrier on 16 July 2009 at 7:57pm
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