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Paulo Pereira
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 24 April 2006
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| Posted: 15 July 2009 at 7:38am | IP Logged | 1
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JB wrote:
| Yes, on the costume designer's sketches for the first movie. And Christopher Reeve had them remove it. |
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Interesting. That's another mark in Reeve's favor. Thanks for the info.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
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| Posted: 15 July 2009 at 8:17am | IP Logged | 2
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I don't get the justification.
•• I can't make the justification work as anything other than one more
"Piss On it and Make it Mine" from Hollywood. As we have seen in countless
CGI movies and scenes, animating cloth with patterns printed on it is a
breeze.
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Anthony Frail
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 09 October 2007
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| Posted: 15 July 2009 at 8:26am | IP Logged | 3
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QUOTE:
| I'm really sick of hearing that argument for a defense of the SUPERMAN RETURNS creators putting Superman in a purple and maroon suit with a 3D emblem, no "S" on the cape, "S"-boots, short boots, bikini style underwear and casting an actor that weighs 160 pounds, has no chin and giving him the wrong hairstyle. There were no significant changes in Superman's appearance in the comics, TV series, cartoons or live action movies from about 1941 until SUPERMAN: RETURNS. Superman's costume goes through tweaking for his first year or so of existence and then there's a pretty specific model that was settled on. |
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I'd agree that the costume was atrocious, but I wouldn't call Brandon Routh "chinless" or feel that his hair was terribly wrong.
I'm surprised that this causing such an uproar; they changed Batman's costume far more significantly in Batman Begins but people still seem to love it.
The plot and overall direction of the film was the real problem. If the movie was great, we'd likely forgive it as we forgave Batman Begins for an even worse infidelity to the source.
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Brad Danson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 02 May 2007
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| Posted: 15 July 2009 at 8:32am | IP Logged | 4
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QUOTE:
I can't make the justification work as anything other than one more
"Piss On it and Make it Mine" from Hollywood. |
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I read somewhere that characters are changed for the movies so that "movie merchandise" is distinguishable from the "comic book merchandise". Sony gets a piece of any merchandise that has "their" Spider-Man (raised silver webbing) on it.
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Robert Walsh
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 24 July 2008
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| Posted: 15 July 2009 at 8:33am | IP Logged | 5
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The bullet proof thing breaks down when you realize Batman wouldn't
want to be shot even while wearing one. Even in this day of body
armor they teach people to aim at the chest because he's going down.
But Hollywood vests works like Hollywood bullets, in a completely
imaginary way.
I really can't see any practical reason why the yellow oval was added.
Seems like they did it for purely design reasons. If there's a story
reason for it, I would love to hear it.
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Robert Walsh
Byrne Robotics Member
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| Posted: 15 July 2009 at 8:36am | IP Logged | 6
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And I'm only talking about the belt buckle on that cover. I never saw
the Superman movie and don't remember anything about the costume
aside from it looked like a Superman costume to me from the trailers I
was ignoring.
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Ed Love
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 05 October 2004
Location: United States
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| Posted: 15 July 2009 at 8:55am | IP Logged | 7
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What the Batman movies prove is that if a movie is strong enough, you can forgive some changes in costumes and looks. As the first Batman movie franchise dipped in quality, the jokes and complaints about the costumes and casting increased. If an amateur can get the costume right and make it work in the Batman/Aliens vs Predator mini-movie then you'd expect Hollywood to. For every such change, you have to really make sure that the end product more than compensates that change. What Hollywood needs to learn is that none of their movies have succeeded BECAUSE they changed the costumes but DESPITE it. It is possible to make a good movie and get the details right.
And comics do the same thing all the time nowadays. Every time a new writer or artist comes on a book, they change costumes, line-ups, decades of continuity. Look at the last several years of Avengers comics, every new artist changed the looks of every character they possibly could. We had Yellowjacket growing to giant size. Nighthawk of the Defenders has now had almost as many costume variations as the Wasp as no artist is able to draw him as he last appeared. Captain America is now more often shown with pouches on his belt and the scale mail shirt over his costume, even stories set in the past. And how often do you now see Bucky without a machine gun?
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Steve De Young
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Joined: 01 April 2008
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| Posted: 15 July 2009 at 8:59am | IP Logged | 8
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The bullet proof thing breaks down when you realize Batman wouldn't
want to be shot even while wearing one.
---------------------------------
Also, if its a solid metal plate of some sort, where would the ricochet go?
But by and large, comics have an even worse idea of how guns actually work than movies (and that's saying something).
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Robert Walsh
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| Posted: 16 July 2009 at 9:49am | IP Logged | 9
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Looking about, I found this page.
Interesting to see the variations that have cropped up on the Superman costume over the years, including a rather old comic cover where Superman has an S on his belt buckle, so maybe that was when everything started going wrong decades ago :)
Edited by Robert Walsh on 16 July 2009 at 9:50am
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Greg Kirkman
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| Posted: 16 July 2009 at 10:01am | IP Logged | 10
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Thing is, if you look at the character Frank was working with in DKR, you'll see he has much more in common with the Adam West version than any comicbook iteration seen before DKR. Only in the TV show was the chest emblem ever shown to be a separate, hard attachment, rather than being stitched or silkscreened on.
++++++++++++
As I recall, DKR showed that Batman wears armor plate underneath the cloth symbol (which is probably just stiched or silkscreened on) instead of having a bulletproof emblem attached to the cloth tunic, as you seem to imply (though I could easily be wrong).
Therefore, a good portion of his chest is armored, and the cloth emblem is merely designed to draw a shooter's attention to that broader, armored area.
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Victor Rodgers
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| Posted: 16 July 2009 at 10:08am | IP Logged | 11
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Interesting to see the variations that have cropped up on the Superman costume over the years, including a rather old comic cover where Superman has an S on his belt buckle, so maybe that was when everything started going wrong decades ago :)
*****
With the exception of the first few years, it shows he has had the exact same costume for decades. In fact the only one that stands out is the Superman Returns costume.
Edited by Victor Rodgers on 16 July 2009 at 10:08am
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Ed Love
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| Posted: 16 July 2009 at 10:26am | IP Logged | 12
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Looking about, I found this page.
Interesting to see the variations that have cropped up on the Superman costume over the years, including a rather old comic cover where Superman has an S on his belt buckle, so maybe that was when everything started going wrong decades ago :)
_____________________
The examples about the color blue doesn't really hold water though. The pictures are all several generations from the original shots and the color will vary just depending on the computer monitors. Factor in the vagaries of printing, the different media, etc, I'd expect to find different shades of blue. Several of the pics from the 40s have obviously been re-colored for reprint volumes and the Superboy pic has a yellow cast to the whole image which is of course going to change the shade of blue, while the Animated Superman pic is backlit and in shadow while the Fleischer pic is also of him in a night sky. And I don't recall anyone finding that much fault with the shade of blue that he was wearing, it's that dull shade of red which is nowhere close to the mark or spirit of the costume.
I could care less about the belt buckle or the S on the back of the cape. The thing is in the end, it made the character look less like the hero, instead of helping make the actor appear larger than life. The angle of the belt and his shorts and the relative smallness of the shield made his torso look too long, the colors were less heroic, less iconic. In most of the cases he shows, the changes were hardly noticeable as being that different from the character in the books at the time, notice just how much ALIKE the various actors' costumes are, the most notable changes being the style of the "S" in his chest shield and the difference in the fabrics used. Then, you get to the recent movie version. It seems to be the only one to strive to get things wrong. Which is funny considering how much effort was made for Routh to ape Christopher Reeve as much as possible in his performance.
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Topic Closed)
