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Steve De Young Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 April 2008 Location: United States Posts: 3517
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Posted: 07 July 2009 at 12:37pm | IP Logged | 1
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What part of that dialog, specifically, gives this clue?
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Boneblaster - Gotham's newest villain is Boneblaster!
...
Boneblaster - Oh man! This is great! Catwoman herself! After I dust you, my street cred will go through the roof!
Catwoman - Sorry to spoil your big debut, newbie, but...
I think pretty much anybody reading the dialogue on that page should be able to work out that Boneblaster is a new villain, this is his debut, and he's trying to make a name for himself (i.e. get 'street cred'). Because...the dialogue literally says that.
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Martin Redmond Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 June 2006 Posts: 3882
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Posted: 07 July 2009 at 12:47pm | IP Logged | 2
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Catwoman - Sorry to spoil your big debut, newbie, but...
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Catwoman even shoves his eye catching face outside of view so her boobs can regain center of interest. You can see her boobs give his face a clear warning to get the hell out of there in panel 4. It's a brilliant script.
Edited by Martin Redmond on 07 July 2009 at 12:49pm
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Andrew Goletz Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 February 2008 Location: United States Posts: 388
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Posted: 07 July 2009 at 12:56pm | IP Logged | 3
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I know I'm in the minority but I really like the image that Chad posted of Dick and Damian especially in the context of the comic. Batman's been missing for months and Gordon is still lighting the signal, hoping for a sign and the new Batman and Robin make their debut in dramatic fashion, springing from the new 'flying' Batmobile down towards the rooftop to meet with Gordon with the batsignal in the background. I really like it.
As my little ones said, 'that looks cool' :)
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Joseph Gauthier Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 11 March 2009 Posts: 1421
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Posted: 07 July 2009 at 12:56pm | IP Logged | 4
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The character was a joke character. He was supposed to be an amateur idiot with sonic vibration gloves trying to become a big name villain, as you can tell from the dialogue. He basically gets his butt handed to him...repeatedly...through the issue.
Well, if that's the case, what's the motivation behind building a story around a character created to be presented as a joke? If it's true, it's no wonder that the execution is flawed because the concept was flawed at conception, and to me, it's suggestive of creators without pride in their chosen field of work.
And it raises the question: What's worse, a person who unintentionally creates bad characters, or a person who intentionally creates bad characters? To me, the answer is obvious, and with the prevelence of the latter, how can anyone expect a reader to embrace a character if the people creating the stories refuse to embrace the same. And this, I think, is expandable to a much larger question going on in a different thread.
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Steve De Young Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 April 2008 Location: United States Posts: 3517
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Posted: 07 July 2009 at 1:15pm | IP Logged | 5
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Well, if that's the case, what's the motivation behind building a story
around a character created to be presented as a joke? If it's true,
it's no wonder that the execution is flawed because the concept was
flawed at conception, and to me, it's suggestive of creators without
pride in their chosen field of work.
----------------------------------------------------
So, Paul Dini is a creator with no pride in his chosen field of work? That's who wrote that comic for the record, as we continue. I think the claim that Paul Dini doesn't love and respect the Bat-characters is kind of ridiculous. You're jumping to a whole bunch of conclusions based on one page from a comic.
The story wasn't built around the joke character. The story is built around the three lead characters of the series, Harley Quinn, Catwoman, and Poison Ivy, being brought together. Within that, there's a need for action sequences, because A) its a superhero comic book, and B) one of the undercurrents of the plot is that Catwoman isn't at her physical peak.
So, Dini could theoretically bring in an established Bat-villain and have that character get the tar kicked out of him repeatedly (doing that established character a disservice), or he can create a new, goofy character in keeping with the light-hearted tone of this particular series, and have the established characters knock him around to humorous effect.
Dini did this one right.
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Steve De Young Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 April 2008 Location: United States Posts: 3517
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Posted: 07 July 2009 at 1:26pm | IP Logged | 6
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I may be being a bit on the picky side here, but the storytelling in the Gotham Sirens page is really flawed.
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It tracks perfectly to me.
Panel 1 - The victims are in front of Boneblaster and slightly to his left. Catwoman drops in from above and behind Boneblaster.
Panel 2 - Catwoman hits Boneblaster in the back, knocking him forward, so now the victims are to the left of both Catwoman and Boneblaster.
Panel 3 - Catwoman turns her head to the left, facing them, and tells them to run.
Panel 4 - As he rises, Boneblaster turns to his right to face Catwoman while the victims run away down the alley.
Panel 5 - Boneblaster, continuing the turn to his right, throws a left at Catwoman that she dodges.
Panel 6 - Catwoman comes back with a left to his face, while he triggers the sonic blast from his right glove.
Backgrounds would definitely help, but I can follow it.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133571
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Posted: 07 July 2009 at 1:34pm | IP Logged | 7
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I think pretty much anybody reading the dialogue on that page should be able to work out that Boneblaster is a new villain, this is his debut, and he's trying to make a name for himself (i.e. get 'street cred'). Because...the dialogue literally says that.•• Indeed it does. Unfortunately, what you said was this: "The character was a joke character. He was supposed to be an amateur idiot with sonic vibration gloves trying to become a big name villain, as you can tell from the dialogue. He basically gets his butt handed to him...repeatedly...through the issue." Now, as I asked before, please point out the specific dialog that indicates the character is intended to be a "joke".
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Chris Geary Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 January 2009 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 1158
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Posted: 07 July 2009 at 1:46pm | IP Logged | 8
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Backgrounds would definitely help, but I can follow it.
--
Didn't say I couldn't follow it, I said it is flawed.
Which it is.
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Steve De Young Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 April 2008 Location: United States Posts: 3517
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Posted: 07 July 2009 at 2:07pm | IP Logged | 9
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Now, as I asked before, please point out the specific dialog that indicates the character is intended to be a "joke".
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I never said that the dialogue on that page said he was a 'joke'. In the context of the issue, its clear the character was a joke. What I said, JB, as you quoted twice, was:
"The character was a joke character."
End of sentence. That was one complete unit of thought.
"He was supposed to be an amateur idiot with sonic
vibration gloves trying to become a big name villain, as you can tell
from the dialogue."
And I showed, in my previous post, how you could tell from the dialogue that he was an amateur villain trying to make a name for himself. Technically speaking, he didn't explain the nature of his powers on this page, that was on the next page. So mea culpa on that part.
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Kirk Melton III Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 June 2007 Location: United States Posts: 501
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Posted: 07 July 2009 at 3:26pm | IP Logged | 10
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I think you forgot the most important selling point: Batgirl and Catwoman running around Buck Nekkid at an upscale sex club.
+++
Knut, that part of the book is what bugged me. The story was damn fine and that type of gratuity was not necessary. It seems like that was tacked on for fans of 'pin up booby girl art' for sales.
BUT:
Did you not like the Asylum scenes? Did you not like the battle of wits? And the main reason I posted this suggestion for fans:
Did you not LOVE the Grandeur and Gravitas when a certain Bat character was in the story? He was not some guy in a suit. He was the Raison d'etre for the OTHER characters to be.
Fantastic stuff.
Edited by Kirk Melton III on 07 July 2009 at 3:27pm
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Chad Carter Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 June 2005 Posts: 9584
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Posted: 07 July 2009 at 4:30pm | IP Logged | 11
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No really...Quietly draws the worst Batman ever. I love Kelley Jones' Batman (I mean, I think it has merit) for the simple reason that Jones is investing something into the art. You can tell Jones, no matter how you fall on the issue of whether or not he "should" draw Batman the way he draws Batman, is an artist with a macabre sensibility. His Batman lurks and creeps about, harkening to his influences. Bill Seinkiewicz's Batman is just as freakish and weird and we attribute that to Bill S's artistic license...Kelley Jones runs along the same lines but I don't think the guy is so pretentiously viewed.
Quietly just stinks. His panels are mind-numbingly bland. As has been pointed out, bland for a SUPERHERO COMIC BOOK. I can imagine Quietly and Chris Weston and Geoff Darrow could knock me out with some poignant art on some kind of other project, but NOT on Batman.
I think people make the mistake, seriously, of assuming every artist is capable of drawing every book. That's a misconception. Stan Lee didn't hip to Jack Kirby drawing Spider-Man. It didn't work, it would never work. Kirby didn't go in for those skinny little superheroes scrabbling up walls...that just wasn't where Kirby was. Spider-Man, in Kirby's hands, didn't look like Spider-Man. Easily the worst part of this cover is, you guessed it, the one character Kirby didn't excell at:
Yet look at that Daredevil...he's the best thing on a classic cover. And it's not to say there's anything horrible about Spider-Man here, just something a little "off."
By the way, I think Kirby's DD works so well because he's a "man." Kirby must have been aware of Spider-Man being a "kid" body and tried to slim him down. But DD is a full-bodied Kirby beefcake, which falls within the acceptable standards of the character, much like Cap and Black Panther.
Now, with Frank Quietly, it doesn't matter to the higher-ups that his Batman sucks it. He's a name, and he's favored by the Morrison. Apparently, Quietly is favored by the "fans" as well. This is falling into the category of art that vexes me, art that seems purposely designed to suckle the life from the proceedings. I guess fans want that kind of art. They want pasty, lumpy human beings in costumes speaking in Morrison-cum-Burroughsesque mind-f*ck-eeze.
"Batmobile: hover." Oooo. That's sooo tough. And apparently the G-forces are crushing Robin's skull into a trapezoid. Meanwhile, a Batman action figure turns its immoble face to Robin: "Ready to test the paracapes?"
Spluuuurt! Everyone cum!
I'm sorry, folks. Quietly is awful. DC has brokered their future on the back of a bald Porsche salesman and his tribe of unethical also-rans (I hate to lump James Robinson into this group, but the man's earning his wings with the tripe he's doing with Superman titles and this JUSTICE LEAGUE thing). Really, really unbelievable.
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Lee Nail Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 30 August 2005 Posts: 202
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Posted: 07 July 2009 at 4:44pm | IP Logged | 12
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The Spider-Man image on that FF #73 cover, is heavily re-touched by John
Romita Sr. I've seen numerous mentions of this in interviews with Romita.
The interior pages, Romita literally redrew the majority of images featuring
the webslinger. For all his accomplishments, Kirby couldn't deliver an "on
model" version of Spider-Man. Not that I think it bothered anyone.
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