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Topic: DeFalco and Mackie Bring Back the Clones (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Glenn Greenberg
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Posted: 07 July 2009 at 7:54pm | IP Logged | 1  

<<<I've been working on the book for a couple years now and it's pretty much done (except for some major editing)>>>


Uh, yeah, Andrew, about that...

WHEN DO I GET TO MAKE MY REVISIONS?????????

>:-D
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Glenn Greenberg
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Posted: 07 July 2009 at 7:58pm | IP Logged | 2  

<<<The only thing that i missed was the Osborn Journal....>>>


It figures.

:-)
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David Kingsley Kingsley
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Posted: 08 July 2009 at 10:36am | IP Logged | 3  

Don't forget that at the time, plenty of Spider-Man fans were still KIDS, and
not just older continuity freaks. If you tell a 12 year old that the Spider-Man
he's been reading about for even 7 months (an eternity at that age) they're
going to be really angry.

************************************************************ **********************

I was actually 11 at the time of the reveal and, oh yes, I was furious. JB had mentioned that few people give concrete answers on what sucks or sucked about the clone saga.

1.) Weekly storylines that resolved nothing: Maximum Clonage. Blood Brothers. Obviously designed to have some sort of conclusion (Maximum Clonage was designed to end with Ben definitively as Spider-Man; Blood Brothers was designed to end with Ben definitively revealed as the clone) but, in the end, their endings were changed, and they instead perform no purpose.

2.) Mysterious characters for whom no backstory (or an unsatisfying backstory) was given or planned: Judas Traveller, Scrier, Gaunt, Kaine. And an entirely new supporting cast of clones: Peter and Ben work fine, together. Peter, Ben, Kaine, Spidercide, and the smokestack skeleton, do not.

3.) So long, Peter Parker: At the expense of the most well-developed and rounded supporting cast in comics, one of the coolest professions as newspaper photographer, the perfectly designed costume, and his iconic identity, Marvel made Spider-Man a bleach-blonde waiter at a coffee house (that wasn't even the Coffee Bean!).

4.) Far-fetched Plans (even for a preteen): Miles Warren wants to destroy humanity and replace everyone on Earth with clones that he can control, because Spider-Man was involved with Gwen's death? Norman Osborn implanted Peter with memories of being a clone and took away his powers and then gave them back, to convince him that he was a clone (with the help of Miles Warren, who should be his arch enemy). Really? Even as a twelve-year old this was a bit preposterous

However, that isn't to say that there weren't some good - even great - things that came out of the storyline.

1.) The costume designs are pretty damn good: Ben's Spider-Suit is a good design and, surprisingly, holds up against the best designed costume in comics. Kaine's uniform and the new Goblin suit, and the Scarlet Spider Costume (it is a costume, he bought it at a store), although obvious products of the 90s, also work well.

2.) Best Death in Comic Books: Amazing Spider-Man 400.

3.) It was F'ing Crazy!!!!1: A Third Spider-Man shows up, for months claims to be the real Peter Parker (confirmed by the Jackal) and then transforms into a monstrous freak (Freak-Face; later Spidercide)! Dr. Octopus is killed by a random, new character, after the most well-developed storyline he had ever appeared in! Spider-Man possessed by Carnage! The Scarlet Spider defeats Venom in combat! Norman Osborn, who had been dead for, like 22 years, returns to kill someone who was unpopular because they returned after dead for, like, 20 years. It was crazy, some of it was awesome, some of it was weak, some of it was awful, but when the storyline was ballsy, it was, indeed, ballsy, and made it impossible to look away.

4.) It Contributed More Than It Detracted: Most will say, in retrospect, that Ben Reilly was a different character from Peter Parker and that their relationship added a dynamic to the books which was not there before and has not been seen, since. Ultimately, Ben's death lessened the books. I hope that the character is coming back. 

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Andrew Goletz
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Posted: 08 July 2009 at 11:15am | IP Logged | 4  


 QUOTE:
Andrew or Glenn, if you're reading, e-mail me!

Done

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Andrew Goletz
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Posted: 08 July 2009 at 11:17am | IP Logged | 5  


 QUOTE:
Uh, yeah, Andrew, about that...

WHEN DO I GET TO MAKE MY REVISIONS?????????

And now I'm going to email you, too :)

I thought you had the revisions? Or are you talking about the new stuff?

Here you go folks, the behind the scenes look at controversy of making the Life of Reilly book :)

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Andrew Goletz
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Posted: 08 July 2009 at 11:20am | IP Logged | 6  

Just a reminder to Ben Reilly fans everywhere that you need to go out an pick up multiple copies of Amazing Spider-Man Annual #36. It's a Ben Reilly centric issue with a villain from Ben's past returning to plague Peter and there are some nice flashbacks to the Clone Saga era stories. This issue is also the lead in to an upcoming arc in Amazing Spider-Man (due in October I believe) called 'Who is Ben Reilly'.

If you want Ben or Kaine back, you gotta support issues like these, especially the upcoming Clone Saga mini (and it's still unbelievable to type that).

 

 

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Glenn Greenberg
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Posted: 08 July 2009 at 11:26am | IP Logged | 7  


 QUOTE:

Quote:
Uh, yeah, Andrew, about that...

WHEN DO I GET TO MAKE MY REVISIONS?????????

Andrew Goletz wrote:

And now I'm going to email you, too :)

I thought you had the revisions? Or are you talking about the new stuff?

Here you go folks, the behind the scenes look at controversy of making
the Life of Reilly book :)



The whole completed manuscript, dude! I was going to work off of that
once it was ready, remember? :-)
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Andrew Goletz
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Posted: 08 July 2009 at 12:11pm | IP Logged | 8  


 QUOTE:
The whole completed manuscript, dude! I was going to work off of that
once it was ready, remember? :-)

...Razzin frazzing....

Vaguely :)

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Andrew W. Farago
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Posted: 08 July 2009 at 12:23pm | IP Logged | 9  

So the annuals are up to #36?  This is one of those deals where they added up all of the random re-numbered annuals over the years, and I can't actually find something labeled Amazing Spider-Man Annual #35, right?
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Stephen Churay
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Posted: 09 July 2009 at 2:53am | IP Logged | 10  

I posted on the first page, my distain for the original Clone Saga. Then again, everything is relative. Compared to One More Day and The Other, The Clone Saga is a modern classic.  I guess I must get over my Clone Saga hatred and accept that this might actually be fun read.


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Matt Adler
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Posted: 09 July 2009 at 8:52am | IP Logged | 11  

I think the only character in the Clone Saga who was just completely unsalvageable is Spidercide. Nothing worthwhile about that character from conception to execution. Everyone else has at least some potential (I even liked Cell-12 and the cybernetically enhanced Hobgoblin).

I think if you were going to do a Clone Saga collection, and you could only do one volume, these would be the essential issues:

Power and Responsibility (The Clone arrives - WoSM #117, ASM #394, SM #51, SPEC #217)

The Exile Returns (First Ben Reilly/Scarlet Spider - WoSM #118-119, SM #52-53)

Web of Death (MJ is pregnant, Kaine kills Doc Ock - ASM #397-398, SPEC #220-221)

Smoke and Mirrors/Players and Pawns (Jackal returns - WoSM #122-123, ASM #399, SM #56, SPEC #222)

Death of Aunt May (Aunt May dies, Peter is arrested for murders - ASM #400)

The Trial of Peter Parker (Kaine reveals himself, Peter is exonerated, tests reveal he is the clone - WoSM #126, ASM #403, SM #60, SPEC #226)

Maximum Clonage Omega (Jackal dies)

The Greatest Responsibility (Peter retires - ASM #406, SM #63, SPEC #229)

Return of Spider-Man (Ben Reilly as Spider-Man - SENS #0)

Blood Brothers (Peter returns, Ben's life is destroyed, Multivex and Gaunt are revealed to have a link to Osborn Industries - SENS #4-5, ASM #411-412, SM #68, SPEC #234)

Revelations (Death of Ben, Return of Norman Osborn - SPEC #240, SENS #11, ASM #418, SM #75)

Plus, The Osborn Journal & 101 Ways to End the Clone Saga.

So that's about 40 issues, which could certainly fit into an Omnibus.

If they wanted to break it up into smaller collections, they could do 3 volumes with about 13 issues each. First volume could have Power & Responsibility, Exile Returns, and Web of Death, the second volume could have everything from the Jackal storyline to Peter's retirement, and the last volume could have everything from Ben's intro as Spider-Man to the conclusion of the saga.

It'd probably be pretty hard, and not worthwhile to try to fit in all the non-essential issues; who knows how long that would be (though I'm sure someone's counted) and collections containing lots of bad issues probably wouldn't sell very well after a while. Probably best to focus on the essential stuff.

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Joss Wierzbicki
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Posted: 10 July 2009 at 4:09pm | IP Logged | 12  

I read ASM annual 36 and to be honest just the fact that the word "Ben Reilly" has been uttered by Peter Parker's mouth - something he hadn't done since PPSM # 75 (Ben's death) - made me so HAPPYYYYYYYYYYYY I just can't wait for the Spider-Clone mini by De Falco & Mackie plus the upcoming storyline in ASM this fall!!!!

Plus, if Peter does investigate Ben's past and his connection to the death of Raptor's family (which I highly doubt by the way) then you can be sure the ONE TRUE ALIVE BEN REILLY can't be far behind!!!

Otherwise what would be the point of mentioning him once more??

I wonder if the mini will be related to the "Who was Ben Reilly" storyline?

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