Andrew W. Farago wrote: I'm also curious about when the "haters" read Watchmen. I didn't have access to comic shops and was too young to have read it during its initial publication, but I picked up the trade early in college, before its reputation as the be-all and end-all of superhero comics had been completely solidified. Those who came along five years later (or after Time listed it as one of the 100 best novels of the 20th century) seem more likely to go into the book prepared to find fault with it. There are any number of classic films I've seen over the years where I wasn't blown away the first time I watched them, since they'd been built up so much ahead of time, but that second, more open-minded viewing usually lets me see a lot of what I hadn't appreciated the first time around.

I know you weren't addressing this to me, since this is my first reply in this thread.  Just thought I'd chime in on the subject.  I'm not a hater of WATCHMEN. I followed the series on a monthly basis when it was originally published even toward the end when the last issues were late IIRC.  I loved Gibbon's art.  Thought the structure was entertaining.  Thought the prose was wooden.  Didn't like superheroes not acting like superheroes as a commentary on what Moore sees (saw) as the subversive nature of being a superhero in general.  Even then, 20 odd years ago, I wasn't much for deconstruction.  I'm still not, so although there were certain things I liked about the maxi-series (what we called it lo those many years ago), it's a head scratcher to me why it's hailed as a masterpiece.  I often bring up SQUADRON SUPREME as a tale in the same vein much better told. Although I haven't read it in years, I remember waiting for new issues with the kind of anticipation I didn't have for WATCHMEN.

  I gave up Watchmen somewhere at the third issue, and that was as they were first coming out.  Just was too sad and grim.  Didn't seem like these guys were ever heroes, let alone superheroes.  It was clearly written by someone who either didn't get superheroes or at least someone who didn't much like superheroes.

  Squardon I dropped for similar feelings.  They were more superheroic, but just kind of nasty.  It felt like Mark was going around breaking the other companies toys, since the Squadron was so obviously the JLA.  If Marvel had been sincere with us, they should have done the story with Marvel clones, not DC clones.  It smacked of cowardice.

Responding to Al, responding to JB:

That's exactly why I contend that Watchmen isn't a great super-hero comic/movie.  It's an okay stroy about people, but it wouldnt' have amounted to a hill of beans if they story were set in another setting.

I like it, I think it's good, but nothing to make be go ga-ga over.

I prefer John Byrne's Next Men to Watchmen.

Me too.  JB's NextMen is probably the most under-rated series of all time, and that is saying something.  I think it is his best work ever (and I loved Alpha Flight).  I am glad to see it is getting all the treatment it is from IDW, and I would love to see it finally make it to the screen with JB involved and doing story boards.  It is incredible.  A must read for anyone, especially those 'civilians' who like Watchmen.

QUOTE: They were more superheroic, but just kind of nasty.  It felt like Mark was going around breaking the other companies toys, since the Squadron was so obviously the JLA.  If Marvel had been sincere with us, they should have done the story with Marvel clones, not DC clones.  It smacked of cowardice.

They were only superficially the JLA. Beyond that they had little resemblence. I think that is what Gruenwald was trying to do with the series. Give the Squadron a personality beyond being JLA clones.

Come on, Vic. We don't need the name-calling.

It's a weird thing but I can't remember how I reacted exactly to WATCHMEN the first time or even where I was when I read it. I do remember being more "into" the SQUADRON SUPREME story because it was more "traditional" for sure.

I think I was more impressed by the historical details of WATCHMEN, which is the power of the book for me. The impression of history, at least, is something that appeals to me in Pulp (Wold Newton) type escapades, so I always enjoy when history and strange heroes mix.