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Robert Bradley
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 September 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 4834
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| Posted: 14 March 2009 at 1:49pm | IP Logged | 1
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I really enjoyed Watchmen, but as mentioned, the basic plot itself is a bit strange. It's very well-written however and the characters are so well-defined. Still, I think Gibbons' really makes the whole thing possible.
And I love the Squadron Supreme and enjoyed their limited series too, but I don't think it has that 'epic feel' to it that Watchmen does. It feels more like a well-done monthly mini-series. (My favorite Squadron Supreme story is actually Avengers #141-144 & 147-149)
If there's something that Marvel has done that I think is on the same level as Watchmen it's probably Marvels, which also worked as a monthly and as a collection, and raises some interesting questions while seeing Marvel history through the eyes of an 'everyman'.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132644
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| Posted: 14 March 2009 at 2:08pm | IP Logged | 2
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Watchmen has sex, nudity, and dirty words. Of course it's better!"
You know, this has been the best summation of why Watchmen is so well
regarded that I've ever seen.
••
Sadly, I remember at the time of publication one of the head honchos at DC
being so thrilled by Dr Manhattan's "nudity". This was so bold! This was so
sophisticated! I thought "Really? A tiny little J shape in a few panels, and
history is made?" So later, when I did NEXT MEN, I tried the same thing, just
to see what would happen.
What happened? Letters demanding to know why I was "afraid" to "draw a
real penis".
Made me wonder how many such missives WATCHMEN received, that
somehow never saw the light of day.
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Mike Murray
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 September 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 530
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| Posted: 14 March 2009 at 2:31pm | IP Logged | 3
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I read WATCHMEN once, about 12 years ago. I think it's the perfect comic book superhero story for people who hate comic books, superheros, and possibly themselves.
I regard SQUADRON SUPREME as one of the best stories I've ever read, in any genre - I must have read my softcover collection of it about 10 times, from cover to cover.
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Wallace Sellars
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 17678
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| Posted: 14 March 2009 at 2:36pm | IP Logged | 4
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Of course everybody knows vanilla is better than chocolate.
---
Legions of women all over the world would strongly disagree.
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John Popa
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 March 2008
Posts: 4400
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| Posted: 14 March 2009 at 2:40pm | IP Logged | 5
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SS always felt to me like Gruenwald just slapped dialogue on the finished art -- I mean, I get that that's how Marvel style worked to a great degree but, I don't know, something about that book, the captions and dialogue never felt like they were really bringing anything out of the art or story. It was just words for words sake. Not that Gruenwald ever delivered any real strong poetic dialogue or captioning but, for me, the book felt really under-written. The plot was interesting but it never found a way to reach its own potential.
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David Miller
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 3036
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| Posted: 14 March 2009 at 2:45pm | IP Logged | 6
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WATCHMEN didn't have a letters page, so to my knowledge none of its fan mail has seen the light of day.
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Pedro Cruz
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 03 January 2006
Posts: 415
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| Posted: 14 March 2009 at 2:48pm | IP Logged | 7
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The original Squadron Supreme mini series has never garnered the same amount of critical praise that Watchmen has gotten because it just isn't as good.
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Michael Wolner Jr
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 September 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 246
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| Posted: 14 March 2009 at 2:51pm | IP Logged | 8
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"Why doesn’t Squadron Supreme get as much praise as Watchmen?"
I can't really answer that question. I liked Squadron Supreme when it came out and I still do. Watchmen I didn't read until I found a copy of the trade years later real cheap. I figured for a few bucks I'd check out what all the hype about it was. I read it once and put it on the bookshelf. I haven't opened it since. I still don't know what the hype was/is all about. It just never "spoke" to me.
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Michael Edwards
Byrne Robotics Member
Wish Granted
Joined: 21 February 2008
Location: United States
Posts: 295
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| Posted: 14 March 2009 at 2:55pm | IP Logged | 9
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I flipped through Watchmen back about, oh, seven years go. The dialogue, story, hell the whole thing was laughable. I still shake my head when people call this juvenile piece of crap a 'sophisticated' and 'literary' comic book.
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Fred J Chamberlain
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 30 August 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 4022
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| Posted: 14 March 2009 at 3:03pm | IP Logged | 10
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Michael, your pointed post and narrow-minded viewpoint flies in the face of the Lee quote you attach to your replies.
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Pedro Bouça
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 1465
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| Posted: 14 March 2009 at 3:28pm | IP Logged | 11
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I would think a more appropriate question is why "Squadron Supreme"
doesn't get the praise that "Kingdom Come" does. Alex Ross/Mark Waid
basically lifted Mark Gruenwald's story from "Squadron Supreme."
---------------------------------------
That is SURELY because of the art. I mean, Kingdom Come is incredibly dull (the world is gonna end because of a PRISON BREAK?!?), but the "Where's Wally" factor on Alex Ross' art somehow made it a classic.
Squadron Supreme is WAY better as story, but, as I said, the art is mostly terrible, in particular on the first few issues.
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Ted Pugliese
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 05 December 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 7984
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| Posted: 14 March 2009 at 5:07pm | IP Logged | 12
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Why doesn’t Squadron Supreme get as much praise as Watchmen?
Nothing new, but Dave Gibbons is the answer.
I once said here that Watchmen was so good, Liefeld could have drawn it, but after seeing the movie, I finally realize that Gibbons is the reason I loved it, not Moore. The story is good, and the amount of supplemental work inside and behind the project is impressive, but the magic is all Gibbons.
P. S. I loved his Green Lantern too.
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Topic Closed)
