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Topic: Why doesn’t Squadron Supreme get as much praise as Watchmen? (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Jason Schulman
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Posted: 14 March 2009 at 9:47am | IP Logged | 1  

Has Gibbons' work on GREEN LANTERN ever been collected in TPB format? It should be. 
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Noah Smith
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Posted: 14 March 2009 at 9:50am | IP Logged | 2  

Watchmen has sex, nudity, and dirty words.  Of course it's better!

Seriously, isn't that how a LOT of people think?
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Brian Miller
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Posted: 14 March 2009 at 10:16am | IP Logged | 3  

And because Alex Ross pushed for it and offered to paint the cover

********************

For free?

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Brian Miller
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Posted: 14 March 2009 at 10:29am | IP Logged | 4  

I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that Gruenwald just wasn't that well-known as a writer. Moore was already making a name for himself by the time he did WATCHMEN. There's only three things I can think of that Gruenwald wrote: the HAWKEYE mini, CAPTAIN AMERICA, and SS. While Hawkeye was fun neither it nor CA has ever been seen as a watermark run* for the character. Sure there were some bright spots, but most fans probably remember the worst parts ( Werewolf Captain America comes to mind) more quickly and more often. I just think he's not known as being a great writer.

And as suggested earlier, not having a set artist for the whole series took some wind out of its sails. At least for me it did. I've never been a fan of having a fill-in artist in the middle of a mini-series. Hated the Layton issues of SECRET WARS. And WATCHMEN had Dave Gibbons. 'Nuff Said.

Finally, I don't think Marvel pushed SS as much as DC did WATCHMEN. I remember a couple of house ads for SS and that's about it. DC had that plus "Who Watches The Watchmen" in their cover corner boxes for months prior to the release. Now, I wasn't privy to any of the fan press back in the day, so I really don't know how much either one of them  was played up in that arena.

Bottom line, I think it comes down to the names involved. Moore/ Gibbons were/ are just seen as superior craftsmen than Gruenwald/ Hall/ Beatty/ De La Rosa/ Ryan/ Buscema ( maybe not this one!)/ Guice.

* I'll readily admit I've not read every issue he wrote in the series.

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Albert Matthews
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Posted: 14 March 2009 at 11:43am | IP Logged | 5  

Also because "Watchmen" comes off as far more "literary" by using such devices as the comic within the comic, symmetrical page layouts, all that prose-style backstory material, etc. "Squandron Supreme" is "just" a superbly told, traditional superhero comic book tale.
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Brad Teschner
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Posted: 14 March 2009 at 12:48pm | IP Logged | 6  

Well, you can make vanilla into chocolate, but try the opposite!

You can make vanilla brown by mixing it with chocolate but that doesn't really make it chocolate...it just makes it look like chocolate.

Squadron Supreme was a whole lto more fun than Wachmen...and I preferred the art in SS too.  Watchmen was a pretentious  yawn-fest for me!
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Victor Rodgers
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Posted: 14 March 2009 at 12:51pm | IP Logged | 7  

Also because "Watchmen" comes off as far more "literary" by using such devices as the comic within the comic, symmetrical page layouts, all that prose-style backstory material, etc. "Squandron Supreme" is "just" a superbly told, traditional superhero comic book tale.

*****

Thats the best point in the thread.

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Joseph Gauthier
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Posted: 14 March 2009 at 12:54pm | IP Logged | 8  

I’ve been lurking around here for quite some time, but I finally got the root out and registered this week- so…hi.   Now this is probably not the type of thread that someone should make their first post in, but it’s also the type that’s too hard to resist.

 

I’ve never read Squadron Supreme, and therefore am not prepared to compare the two, but the things that I admire about Watchmen, like others have mentioned, do not include the plot.  In fact, the first time I read it, when I was a bit younger, I found it almost a chore to read.  It wasn’t until I became concerned with, and interested in the nature of storytelling in the comic book form that I came to appreciate the structural quality of the story.  To me, above all else, I love the trust given between the writer and artist.  It obviously came from a very full script, but the writing and the art don’t compete with one another, allowing a real subtlety to manifest and develop; lesser writers often feel a need to write all over the art in strangely unnecessary ways.

One question I do often find myself asking about Watchmen, however, is who was it written for?  Was it written for readers, or was it written for creators?  Because there’s a real limit to a story if it alienates its audience, but I guess in this case, it seems to have found an audience.  So who knows.

 

As for Squadron Supreme, however, even though I never read it, I do have a copy of issue seven which I bought probably twenty years ago in one of those three-for-a-dollar packs that they used to have at the checkout line in supermarkets.  I honestly can’t say whether I ever read it from start to finish, but there were a couple pages in the issue showing Power Princess and Hyperion walking together in costume beneath the foliage of a suburban street with picket fences and lighted windows that I used to stare at as a child.  It was such an unusual image that it affected me in a very profound way; so much so, in fact, that while most of my other comic books are packed away waiting for my son to ask for them, that particular issue sits in a pile of comics that inspired me in one way or another; it’s a small pile, and I look at them often.   Watchmen is there too.
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Rick Whiting
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Posted: 14 March 2009 at 1:02pm | IP Logged | 9  

Do you guys think that Squadron Supreme would make a good live action (or animated) movie? Do you think an SS movie would have more mainstream appeal then the Watchmen movie had (which seems to be very little judging by it's performance at the box office)?

Edited by Rick Whiting on 14 March 2009 at 1:02pm
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Victor Rodgers
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Posted: 14 March 2009 at 1:06pm | IP Logged | 10  

I think so, but wouldnt that create a copyright issue with DC. I know DC turned a blindeye to the Squadron for years. But would this be another issue?
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Matt Hawes
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Posted: 14 March 2009 at 1:11pm | IP Logged | 11  

I would think a more appropriate question is why "Squadron Supreme" doesn't get the praise that "Kingdom Come" does. Alex Ross/Mark Waid basically lifted Mark Gruenwald's story from "Squadron Supreme."
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Jozef Brandt
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Posted: 14 March 2009 at 1:33pm | IP Logged | 12  

Noah Wrote:

Watchmen has sex, nudity, and dirty words.  Of course it's better!

You know, this has been the best summation of why Watchmen is so well regarded that I've ever seen.


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