| Author |
|
Robert Walsh
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 24 July 2008
Posts: 456
|
| Posted: 22 March 2009 at 8:27pm | IP Logged | 1
|
|
|
The artwork does its job without calling any attention to itself. It's effectively invisible to my eyes. I'm noticing the same thing with Steve Dillon's art in Preacher. I'm sure Dave Gibbons is doing all sorts of things that are enhancing my enjoyment of the story, but that means that the underlying material is the main cause of my enjoyment. Gibbons didn't just decide to draw the people on the street corner and make me care about their lives, Moore's guiding hand is apparent in everything I love about that book.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Pedro Bouça
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 1465
|
| Posted: 22 March 2009 at 8:33pm | IP Logged | 2
|
|
|
The pirate comic-within-the-comic has the answer for the Ozymandias question here. On that story, a survivor from a pirate attack attempts to get back to his hometown believing that the pirates are going there to kill everyone. He arrives there half-crazy and kills a bunch of people himself, thinking he is doing that for the good of his people. But he is not, the pirates weren't there. So in the end he becomes (quite literally) what he was trying to prevent.
Edited by Pedro Bouça on 22 March 2009 at 8:34pm
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
e-mail
|
| |
Robert Walsh
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 24 July 2008
Posts: 456
|
| Posted: 22 March 2009 at 8:33pm | IP Logged | 3
|
|
|
Veidt could easily die in his base when it failed, no problem.
* * * *
Except that the story tells me that he couldn't, not without risking the entire world.
The world's richest man just disappearing... that is going to lead to a lot of questions by people who will know how to get answers. That part works with me.
I have a bit more problem with him being able to cover up the deaths of his staff, but world's smartest man... maybe he's got a damn good idea about that. He's certainly got the money and power to pull off a cover-up at that scale.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Brian Hague
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 November 2006
Posts: 8515
|
| Posted: 22 March 2009 at 10:46pm | IP Logged | 4
|
|
|
At the end, Veidt asks Manhatten if he did the right thing. That uncertainty will prove to be a punishment to the world's smartest and most arrogant man. Veidt does not escape unscathed, as shown by the end of the pirate story, as Pedro points out above.
Needing to see him killed or punched out is childish. You cannot kill the world's richest man without opening the events of his death to inquiry, and they cannot permit an inquiry without undoing the results of his mass-murder. You want to see the mean ol' bad guy get a good solid punch-in-the-mouth or dance a jig at the end of noose? There are untold numbers of entertainment avenues pandering to your taste for simplicity. Enjoy them. This one, I'm afraid, will not service your needs in that regard.
Oh, and Ted, did you read Gibbons' "The Originals?" Y'know, maybe Moore did have more to do with the story's success than you're willing to give him. This week.
Andrew Bitner wrote: "Sorry, but the ending was the ending. For my money, Moore got it right."
Well said. I agree, and I thank you for your posts on this thread.
Edited by Brian Hague on 22 March 2009 at 11:02pm
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
e-mail
|
| |
Andrew W. Farago
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 July 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 4079
|
| Posted: 22 March 2009 at 11:02pm | IP Logged | 5
|
|
|
Andrew W. Farago wrote:
Most of the people who don't like Watchmen here seem to have some sort
of personal grudge against Alan Moore for all the comics that they
haven't enjoyed since 1987
Matt Reed wrote:
Poppycock. I'm not the biggest fan of WATCHMEN because I'm not the
biggest fan of WATCHMAN. Not because I hold a grudge against Moore,
but because I'm not a fan of deconstructionist clap trap. Otherwise, you
insinuate that the only reason not to like WATCHMAN is because of the
effect it had on the industry and that if it didn't have said effect, it would
be universally praised as being the best of the best of the medium. Isn't
it quite possible not to like WATCHMEN on it's own merits rather than
falling back on the old saw that just because a bunch of people like it, I
must be wrong for not liking it? Really? Do you want to go that far with
you generalization?
I might have been wrong to give the reason that "most" people don't like
Watchmen, but I think a lot of it is just backlash against Moore, who
manages to catch the blame for everything that's bad in the comics
industry today. Maybe it's lingering resentment from the Revolutionary
War...
And it's definitely possible to dislike Watchmen based on its own merits.
It's possible to dislike The Godfather, Citizen Kane, The Old Man and The
Sea, The White Album... One man's classic is another man's
"Youngblood," I'm sure.
But I think animosity toward Moore and whatever people think he
represents colors a lot of the negative Watchmen reviews to the point
that I have to dismiss them entirely. Saying that Watchmen's terribly
written, or dull, or that it's just a compilation of ripoffs from other
sources, or that it's nothing special at all, or that Dave Gibbons's art is
the only decent thing about it...well, I give those comments the same
weight as comments on other comic book message boards where people
have an axe to grind against John Byrne and dismiss everything he's done
in his entire career.
It's not that there haven't been any well-stated criticisms of Watchmen in
this thread, but a lot of the criticisms have seemed to be based on
emotional reactions to the work, and against the people who prefer it to
Squadron Supreme.
I just unearthed my Squadron Supreme collection, by the way, and I look
forward to re-reading it soon to see how it holds up.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
| www
e-mail
|
| |
Jim Muir
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 June 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 1373
|
| Posted: 23 March 2009 at 4:14am | IP Logged | 6
|
|
|
<<Old hero decides to kill millions (?) of people to save the world and
gets away with it (even after getting caught) and the guy who tries to
stop him dies.
What is so great about it? Seriously.>>
Ted, you can reduce any classic story to one line and hey, look, its not so hot after all.
"and it turns out HE WAS DEAD ALL ALONG"
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Robert Walsh
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 24 July 2008
Posts: 456
|
| Posted: 23 March 2009 at 7:49am | IP Logged | 7
|
|
|
And it turns out to be a sled all along.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Martin Redmond
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 June 2006
Posts: 3882
|
| Posted: 23 March 2009 at 10:06am | IP Logged | 8
|
|
|
QUOTE:
| Needing to see him killed or punched out is childish. You cannot kill the world's richest man without opening the events of his death to inquiry, and they cannot permit an inquiry without undoing the results of his mass-murder. You want to see the mean ol' bad guy get a good solid punch-in-the-mouth or dance a jig at the end of noose? There are untold numbers of entertainment avenues pandering to your taste for simplicity. Enjoy them. This one, I'm afraid, will not service your needs in that regard. |
|
|
I don't mind that. It's just that every thing I read that's considered mature is loserish like that. imo it's not realistic either to constantly end things in the worse possible manner all the time. Or we'd be living in an apockaliptic wasteland right now. :]
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Victor Rodgers
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 December 2004
Posts: 3508
|
| Posted: 23 March 2009 at 10:13am | IP Logged | 9
|
|
|
Veidt being exposed would not undo the good done by what happened in New York. It would most likely just make Veidt a common enemy for the world.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Robert Walsh
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 24 July 2008
Posts: 456
|
| Posted: 23 March 2009 at 10:21am | IP Logged | 10
|
|
|
Why would he be the common enemy of the world. His actions only affected the United States. And if he was killed or put in prison, there would be no lingering threat that would unite the world.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Victor Rodgers
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 December 2004
Posts: 3508
|
| Posted: 23 March 2009 at 11:28am | IP Logged | 11
|
|
|
1. Because if he would do that to the United States what would he do to other countries.
2. Who said anything about him being dead or in jail? Unless Dr.Manhatten decided to help, stopping Veidt would not be easy.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Ted Pugliese
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 05 December 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 7985
|
| Posted: 23 March 2009 at 12:21pm | IP Logged | 12
|
|
|
Oh, and Ted, did you read Gibbons' "The Originals?" Y'know, maybe Moore did have more to do with the story's success than you're willing to give him. This week.
Of course, I read the Originals, and I liked it, but I remember the art more than the story ;-)
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
| www
|
| |
Topic Closed)
