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Robert Bradley
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 September 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 4880
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| Posted: 15 March 2009 at 10:36pm | IP Logged | 1
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Re: Watchmen Late Publication
Watchmen #1-9 had monthly cover dates (September, 1986 - May, 1987), after that there was two months between issues 9 & 10 (July, 1987); one month for #11 (August, 1987) and then two months before #12 (November, 1987)
Camelot 3000 had much more serious problems after the first five issues came out on time, #6 was two months late, #7 and #8 came out on a monthly schedule, #9 and #10 were both two months late, #11 was three months late and #12 was eight (!) months late.
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Robert Bradley
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 September 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 4880
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| Posted: 15 March 2009 at 10:53pm | IP Logged | 2
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As for the Squadron Supreme and their JLA counterparts, here's the full list (as I interpret it at least) -
SQUADRON SUPREME
Hyperion = Superman
Nighthawk = Batman
Whizzer = Flash
Doctor Spectrum = Green Lantern
Power Princess = Wonder Woman
Skrullian Skymaster = Martian Manhunter
Amphibian = Aquaman
Hawkeye/Golden Archer/Black Archer = Green Arrow
Lady Lark/Skylark = Black Canary
American Eagle/Captain Hawk = Hawkman
Tom Thumb = Atom
Nuke = Firestorm
Arcanna = Zatanna
INSTITUE OF EVIL
Ape-X = Gorilla Grodd
Lamprey = Parasite
Shape = Byth
Dr. Decibel = Dr. Polaris/Sonar
Quagmire = Goldface
Firefox = Cheetah
NIGHTHAWK'S REDEEEMERS
Inertia = Halo
Haywire = Black Lightning
Mink = Catwoman
Moonglow = Looker
Pinball = Penguin
Remnant = Joker
Redstone = Geo-Force
Thermite = Metamorpho
Edited by Robert Bradley on 15 March 2009 at 10:55pm
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Victor Rodgers
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 December 2004
Posts: 3508
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| Posted: 16 March 2009 at 12:50am | IP Logged | 3
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I believe after the initial Squadron Marvel had to be more careful about it. Hence why the Redeemers and Institute are more vague.
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Andrew W. Farago
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 July 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 4079
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| Posted: 16 March 2009 at 3:07am | IP Logged | 4
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Victor,
That was more a response to the "sampling" comments earlier. I've read any number of dismissals of Watchmen online because it's "just" Alan Moore taking existing character types and using stories similar to other stories that people have written before, and people saying that all the hard work had been done for him by other creators.
Pretty ridiculous statements, but they turn up a lot, for some reason. Outside of Jack Kirby and a handful of others, who's really "created" new superhero stories? You can find precedents for just about any story if you really try--there's nothing new under the sun.
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Victor Rodgers
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 December 2004
Posts: 3508
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| Posted: 16 March 2009 at 3:54am | IP Logged | 5
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I was telling my friend about how Nite Owl was suppose to represent Blue Beetle and he was shocked. Aside from Rorsach I don't you could recognise any of the characters as Charlton characters.
To clarify my comments earlier. Visually the Squadron is clearly the JLA. I just think thats where it ends.
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Pedro Cruz
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 03 January 2006
Posts: 417
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| Posted: 16 March 2009 at 4:37am | IP Logged | 6
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"But through that criteria, a Rob Liefeld fan could say Rob's a superior artist
to John Byrne, for instance, right?"
-----
Of course he could. And it would be interesting to see such a fan defend his
position.
But regardless of how such a fan defended his position it still is a fact that John Byrne is a better artist than Rob Liefeld. The gap there is between them is abyssal.
Like someone else said, The title of this thread might well have been "Why doesn’t Captain Carrot get as much praise as Watchmen?"
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133318
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| Posted: 16 March 2009 at 5:07am | IP Logged | 7
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In fandom, actual quality has not been much of a measure in terms of what
is considered "best" or "better". As noted upthread, if this were otherwise,
Dave Gibbons would be the superstar he deserves to be.
It is frustrating when fans cannot make the simple distinction that what they
like may not be the best, and what they dislike may not be the worst.
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Don Zomberg
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Joined: 23 November 2005
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| Posted: 16 March 2009 at 9:24am | IP Logged | 8
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Which goes a long toward explaining the voting by fans in Marvel's ridiculous Top 100 Marvel comics of all time. Jesus wept--McFarlane's 1st issue of "Spider-Man"? Kevin Smith's first issue of Daredevil?
Intelligent design, my ass....
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
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| Posted: 16 March 2009 at 9:42am | IP Logged | 9
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WIZARD's polls (if polls they truly be) tend to suffer badly from a decidedly
age-ist skew. Often "top" books are those that came out in the last ten
years, or even five.
When they first lofted the idea of the Top 100 Marvel Comics I thought "First
hundred issues of FANTASTIC FOUR. Done!"
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Don Zomberg
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 23 November 2005
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| Posted: 16 March 2009 at 10:00am | IP Logged | 10
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What, that old stuff, Byrne?
Crazy talk.
Someone pointed out that it looked like the fanboys (can I still use that as a negative?) just went through their copies of Wizard and chose issues with "important" firsts--the above mentioned issues, along with first appearances--Falcon, Silver Surfer, Hobgoblin, Venom (cameo), Venom (full), etc.
Roger Stern had one of the best runs ever on ASM--but there was hardly anything groundbreaking about the Hobgoblin's first appearance. So not only was the list absurd, it was incredibly arbitrary.
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Victor Rodgers
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 December 2004
Posts: 3508
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| Posted: 16 March 2009 at 2:03pm | IP Logged | 11
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And Pedro you still refuse to answer my question. Who died and left you the person to decide whats better.
QUOTE:
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Like someone else said, The title of this thread might well have been "Why doesn’t Captain Carrot get as much praise as Watchmen?"
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What an incredibly stupid false thing to say.
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Andrew W. Farago
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 July 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 4079
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| Posted: 16 March 2009 at 2:38pm | IP Logged | 12
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In fandom, actual quality has not been much of a measure in terms of what
is considered "best" or "better". As noted upthread, if this were otherwise,
Dave Gibbons would be the superstar he deserves to be.
It is frustrating when fans cannot make the simple distinction that what they
like may not be the best, and what they dislike may not be the worst.
For what it's worth, I think Dave's really getting his fair share of "superstar" treatment these days. He's traveling the world, he's probably been interviewed more than 100 times in the past month, Watchmen has sold about one million copies (most of them since last July), and I'm sure that he's never been better situated to pick and choose whatever comics project he wants to take on next. And it really couldn't have happened to a nicer, more humble guy.
When I first read Watchmen (mid-1990s, when artwork with clear, solid storytelling was out of fashion), I'm sorry to say that I thought the artwork was really "plain vanilla," and actually thought about how the story might have benefited if a flashier, more dynamic superstar artist from that era (Walt Simonson, John Byrne, Mike Zeck) had drawn it instead.
By my second or third reading, though, maybe just a year or two later, I realized just how much Dave brought to the project, and that there really wasn't anyone better qualified to bring that level of care and detail to Watchmen. He does such a brilliant job throughout--setting the mood, pacing the story, leading the eye, staging a scene, LETTERING--that it really couldn't have been anyone else's story.
I'm really fortunate that I've gotten to work with Dave recently on an exhibition of his original artwork. I've got his preliminary sketches, thumbnails and final pages on the walls at the Cartoon Art Museum right now, and it's like a master course in storytelling. Gibbons's thumbnails are incredible--he's able to fit every single important aspect of a comics page into a two-inch high rectangle, and as great as John Higgins's coloring is, it's great to see just how skilled Gibbons is at laying down black ink on a white page.
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