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F. Ron Miller
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Posted: 02 February 2009 at 9:28pm | IP Logged | 1  

Distribution is both the problem and the solution. What about the matter of
returns of unsold product? Can a publisher still operate a comics business
that way? Those golden age and silver age numbers of hundreds of
thousands of units sold: how many books does one need to print under the
old system in order to sell 500,000 copies? 650,000? 750,000? Can a
comics publisher afford that much spoilage in today's economy?

Today's comic's shops can't return unsold product to the distributor, isn't
that right? Or am I mistaken?
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Jason Czeskleba
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Posted: 02 February 2009 at 10:45pm | IP Logged | 2  

Back when the "paper wars" were first starting, First Comics started using "mando paper."  I really liked that stuff.  Heavier and slightly whiter than newsprint.  Fairly similar to what's in the Kirby 4th World books.  Baxter paper is too heavy and too white for me.  And I hate anything with a gloss on it.  Comics should not be printed on glossy paper, it just doesn't look right. 

F. Ron, you are correct that comic shops cannot return unsold product.  That's what makes them attractive to publishers.  IIRC, in the old days a comic was considered successful if it sold about half its total print run. 


Edited by Jason Czeskleba on 02 February 2009 at 10:57pm
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Wallace Sellars
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Posted: 02 February 2009 at 11:33pm | IP Logged | 3  

The Jack Kirby FOURTH WORLD collections have really excellent paper and
printing. They look like real comic books --- only better!
---
Agreed! I was shocked to hear some guys in my LCS complaining about DC
being to cheap to reprint the stories on glossy paper.
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Chris Geary
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Posted: 03 February 2009 at 12:36am | IP Logged | 4  

Given the fact that world wide there is pretty much a solid postal system, I don't think that distribution is the actual problem.  It certainly doesn't help matters when you do narrow down your outlets for the occasional purchaser*, but with the super-duper highway, it is posssible to get comics if you want them.

But who wants them?

I know where to get comics from, and I no longer really want them anymore.  At least recent publications.  I buy trades of old comics I missed first time round.  I really miss the rush of getting a monthly stash of funny books to plough through, but I don't think they're good enough to warrant the money it costs.  I can buy a monthly magazine for about the same price and that will take me a lot more than five minutes to read.  And I actually might enjoy it.  I am a wannabe artist/writer and I shouldn't be reading comics and spending most of the time thinking of better ways to do them.  That makes me better than those involved.   And that is not right. 

So even if they were available on every street corner, do you think that the average joe would actually buy them?

It's been said before that this seems to be the age of the writer in regard to the superstars in comics, and that would be fine if those writers knew how to write comics, and more importantly wanted to write comics.  It seems that ever since Watchmen and DKR, people are trying to make comics a valid form of entertainment for adults, and have actually made them more juvenile.  Plus those that were at the right age to read them as fans are now producing but don't want to write comics.  They want to write what they percieve as comics with adult sensibilities so we get lots of broken up dialogue, 'thought panels' and other 'clever' bits and pieces because they're trying to be realistic. 

It's comics.  It's not supposed to be realistic.  Deal with it. 

If those involved don't want to be seen as comic writers, don't do it.  Stick to TV.  I don't know what the problem is, people who write childrens books don't have any problem saying so.  Why is it that we need to change what comics are, and what makes them great, in order to hold our heads up to talk to people about them? 

What is wrong with writing about the fantastic?

And paper is paper.  If what people read is good they will come back.  Even if the cost is not that great.

*I first started getting comics from local newsagents, starting with Transformers and Spider-Man and Zoids that were weekly issues containing reprinted and original material.  Mainly reprints.  There was also Secret Wars and Action Force (GI Joe) Secret Wars started with the LS then led into SW 2 which included all the crossover issues.  It was from this that I read my first JB comic.  The second part of the Hate-Monger story (FF #281).  Then when I found my LCS, and the original amercan format, I switched to that.  Newsagents also sold the occasinal american format, but it wasn't really consistent.  If my LCS sold out of a particular issue, the hunt was on.  I remember going to about ten shops before I found a particular issue of X-men I was after (#222)  From that point on I then started up a subcription service at the LCS.

In recent years the age of the reprint seems to have come back over here.  Specially Marvel - through Pannini.  Lots of newsagents and larger grocery stores now carry them.  I don't know what the sales are like though.  But I see that as a good sign.    

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CJ Grebb
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Posted: 03 February 2009 at 6:58am | IP Logged | 5  

But the chain bookstore is really where it's at now.

***

As Brad said below you - if someone really made a go at re-instating the business model of the silver age, you would have to do it through Wal-Mart. They move product like nobody's business and can tell the DSM to go pound sand.

A couple of spinner racks up around the electronics section (close to the video games) would have kids sticking to it like flypaper. I actually envision a rack with two small LCD screens on top playing promotional trailers for the various comics and toy/cartoon tie-ins (is that idea original? I seem to remember reading something similar on this board).

Shrinkage would be an issue, of course, but probably no more so than 7-11s had to deal with back in the day. And of course the idea is to make the comics cheap enough that kids would rather just buy the thing instead of risking getting caught.

And yes, you'd have to offer to buy back unsold product. That's how it becomes so attractive to retailers. Besides, if it all took off, you'd be able to recycle those buy-backs into the secondary market, as it should be.

This is, of course, all a pipe dream.
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Paulo Pereira
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Posted: 03 February 2009 at 7:46am | IP Logged | 6  

Well, doesn't Wal-Mart already sell comics?  There's already a foot in the door, so to speak. 

I dunno, maybe it's not as hopeless as it seems.
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Jesus Garcia
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Posted: 03 February 2009 at 8:12am | IP Logged | 7  

I've been in the IT industry for years and a recurring pattern that I have seen among IT service providers is that "less units but more money per unit is good".

In my field, there are many companies that seek to position themselves in niche markets where they can have a relatively small staff (say less than 200 people) but charge more for their services.

Likewise, many companies prefer to pursue 10-20 contracts a year for $1,000,000-$2,000,000 per contract rather than 75-100 contracts a year for $100,000 to $200,000 per contract. I would have thought that a larger client count is an indicator of market or industry diversification, but the powers that be seem to think otherwise.

Perhaps a similar mindset is at work here.

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John Byrne
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Posted: 03 February 2009 at 9:11am | IP Logged | 8  

Part of the problem is -- and long has been -- that the Publishers spend
next years money. So at the beginning of each fiscal year they must
calculate how much they need to make in order to avoid a shortfall. Thus,
the chief bean counter will look at the upcoming titles and slap prices on
them based on how well he expects them to sell vs what he wants to make
from them.

And, yes, that is insane.
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Jeremiah Avery
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Posted: 03 February 2009 at 9:43am | IP Logged | 9  

I would say that we're getting what we paid for but that wouldn't be true.  The same amount of pages for more money but with less content (I don't consider a bunch of talking heads to be equivalent content).  A lot of people don't vote with their wallet, so why should the publishers care if someone complains but still buys their product?  All that says is that no matter what the publishers do, the consumer will bend over and take and ask for more.
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Erin Anna Leach
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Posted: 03 February 2009 at 11:55am | IP Logged | 10  

I feel that if comics are going to survive, the publishers need to take a serious look at turning the internet into the next newsstand. I'm sorry John, I know you don't like the idea of that, but desperate times call for drastic messures. I'll admit that I'm not fond of the idea myself, but I am less fond of the idea of there not being comic books at all. That and I'm going into massive debt going to art school in order to get assigned on better titles in comics. Cultiating the next generation of readers needs to be looked at, and they are definately the " download it " generation.  
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John Byrne
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Posted: 03 February 2009 at 12:25pm | IP Logged | 11  

Comics on the internet are not comics. We use the term, but it's like saying
a Formula 1 racer and a Volkswagen beetle are both cars. True on one level,
but really? Taking comics to the internet turns them into something else.
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David Lopez
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Posted: 03 February 2009 at 1:03pm | IP Logged | 12  

And this is the primary reason I've thus far resisted the urge to purchase the Marvel CD-ROM collections, as well as passing on a Kindle Reader when I was asked if I wanted one this past Christmas. They're books. And in addition to the fact that reading on a computer screen for any protracted period of time gives me a headache, there's just something to be said for the tactile sensation of actually holding a book (comic or other) in one's hands. 
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