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Dan Burke
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 24 June 2007
Posts: 432
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| Posted: 01 February 2009 at 8:15pm | IP Logged | 1
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Want to pay Alex Rodriquez $25 mil a year? Raise ticket prices.
Want to pay the Kubert brothers salary and benefits for 3 years (and only get about 12 comics and 20 covers out of it)? $3.99 cover prices, and extensive crossovers where you have to buy multiple issues...
The problem with business, is that they all play from the same playbook, not an original or dynamic thought in business in the last 40 years. (Not products, methods of transacting business).
How many comic artists would give up salaries, 401k, health insurance, royalties, to go back to the way things were?
The grass is always greener....
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Robert Bradley
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 September 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 4878
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| Posted: 01 February 2009 at 8:18pm | IP Logged | 2
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The comic companies going to higher production values to appeal to niche collectors would be like the automotive industry deciding to produce only luxury cars and high performance sports cars and then wondering why the everyman doesn't buy their product any more.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133266
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| Posted: 01 February 2009 at 8:41pm | IP Logged | 3
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Supply and demand will meet at the equilibrium.
Those who want to read comics desired better paoer, better color, etc. These
came at a cost that actual comic readers were willing to pay. These higher
prices drove casual, disengaged readers away.
It does make sense, in theory, to make more (not the same, MORE) on fewer
items moved. This is what they teach you in business school. Move 10 items
for $1000 each is better than $10,000 at $1.
As a business theory, it works. Somewhere along the line (maybe when
Warner Brothers and/or New Line Cineman got involved) comics became a
full fledged business as opposed to the distant cousin of artists, as it had
been.
These businessmen quickly inserted into comic production everything they
learned in business school. Promotion became more important than content.
They are making more money than ever, so I can only suppose they
dwindling circulation numbers don't mean too much to them.
Which is to the detriment for those who view comics as a mode of
expression, not of business.
Basically, the businessmen did to comics what they did to movies, other
publishing, banking, lending, carmanufacturing, etc... warped it to the point
where it is barely recognizable from its original intent and incarnation.
And those involved in the industry were too unsophisitcated (in business) to
stop it. Or they saw it happening, and didn't want to say anything because
cashing those big checks was so much fun.
See? for comics to go back to the "way they were" it would mean
EVERYTHING goes back, including wages and treatment of talent, not just
the things we don't like. Can't have our cake and eat it too, unfortunately.
••
Wow. Never seen so many swings and misses in a single post.
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Matthew Hansel
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 18 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 3469
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| Posted: 01 February 2009 at 8:45pm | IP Logged | 4
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I've been worried about the topic of JB's post for quite sometime.
If comics could get BACK into the VENUES that KIDS would FIND them, I
think the industry would have a fighting chance.
Whilst engaged in Zen and the Art of Grocery Shopping earlier today, I
thought to myself, why doesn't WAL-MART carry comic books? THAT
would certainly get sales going? Right? Maybe?
THEN--I thought about the content of the average DC and/or M*****
book and thought to myself, "there's no WAY Wal-Mart would allow such
stuff to be sold in their stores".
It is sad to think that the content of the books is such that most children
would either be turned away or totally disinterested because the
EXPERIENCE of reading about superheroes for the first time has been
TOTALLY AND COMPLETELY destroyed by the powers-that-are at both
companies.
*sigh*
MPH
P.S. I recently read that due to the economy and due to a SEVERE decline
in readership, PLAYBOY will only publish 11 issues this year!!! NOW, I
know that there are just as many people interested in seeing nekkid
ladies now as there was in times past, but is this a sign of the times?
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Dan Burke
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 24 June 2007
Posts: 432
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| Posted: 01 February 2009 at 9:37pm | IP Logged | 5
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do tell...
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Don Mayer
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 May 2008
Posts: 238
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| Posted: 01 February 2009 at 10:25pm | IP Logged | 6
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Wow. Never seen so many swings and misses in a single post.
*****
Maybe from your point, but it is easy to see how one point could grow into another. Maybe it shouldn't be discounted so quickly and easily.
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Michael Roberts
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 14852
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| Posted: 01 February 2009 at 10:40pm | IP Logged | 7
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As a business theory, it works. Somewhere along the line (maybe when
Warner Brothers and/or New Line Cineman got involved) comics became a
full fledged business as opposed to the distant cousin of artists, as it had
been.
---
Isn't this horribly inverted? Comics started out run by businessmen from the publishing industry and shifted to being run by creative professionals who had risen through the comic book ranks.
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Robert Bradley
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 September 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 4878
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| Posted: 01 February 2009 at 10:44pm | IP Logged | 8
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it's always been a business - there's just more money involved now.
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Jeff Fettes
Byrne Robotics R&D
Joined: 01 October 2003
Posts: 30
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| Posted: 01 February 2009 at 11:26pm | IP Logged | 9
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Can't say I agree with Dan at all on this one.
From a business standpoint, I would say comics biggest problem can be summed up with one word: distribution. People go on an on about how these days people have DVDs and video games and they're competing against comics. If only comics were still as readily available to buy as these other things, they might stand a fighting chance.
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Eric Kleefeld
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 December 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4422
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| Posted: 01 February 2009 at 11:39pm | IP Logged | 10
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The comics business needs to look at the ways manga has been successful here, and figure out how to duplicate those aspects while still retaining a fundamentally American personality and staying true to the characters.
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Jason Czeskleba
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 30 April 2004
Posts: 4620
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| Posted: 02 February 2009 at 12:24am | IP Logged | 11
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Dan Burke wrote:
| It does make sense, in theory, to make more (not the same, MORE) on
fewer items moved. This is what they teach you in business school. Move
10 items for $1000 each is better than $10,000 at $1. |
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I'm not a business major but I sure don't see the logic in this for
periodicals or any item which depends on regular ongoing sales. If you
sell ten items for $1000 each then you only have ten customers. If one
of your customers quits buying or dies, you've instantly lost 10% of
your sales. Doesn't it make more sense to have a larger base of
customers? Maybe in the short term selling less for more can be
successful, but as a long-term strategy it seems disastrous.
QUOTE:
| See? for comics to go back to the "way they were" it would mean
EVERYTHING goes back, including wages and treatment of talent, not just
the things we don't like. Can't have our cake and eat it too,
unfortunately. |
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I don't see the connection. Higher salaries and royalties for creators are not the main reason comics cost more now than they did 30 years ago. Anyway it's doubtful a moderately lower price would make a substantial difference in comic sales given the present environment. And how would lowering wages or treating talent worse improve distribution or the content of the books, the two biggest problems right now?
Edited by Jason Czeskleba on 02 February 2009 at 1:36am
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Robert White
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4560
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| Posted: 02 February 2009 at 12:40am | IP Logged | 12
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It's hard to know exactly where to start to combat this problem. If we are talking about content on an artistic level, that's one thing, but it's debatable how closely related that is with moving units.
Who's to say comics COULD average 500k a month under the best conditions given the changes to our culture since the 70's and 80's?
The obvious fact that comics are now marketed toward an old and cynical fanbase is an odd model if you are worried about long-term success. This should tell us that the companies aren't worried about the art-form of comics but more about the intellectual properties derived from said comics. Ok...how do we go about changing this?
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