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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133334
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| Posted: 26 January 2009 at 2:52pm | IP Logged | 1
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Since we're talking about Xavier, what do you all think (JB too, please) about
a recent X-Men issue whereby Xavier spied on a compound by "seeing" it
through a bird's eyes? Can he do that with the history we know of him and
the presumed differences of human and avian brains?
••
Whether he can do it is not even an issue. He doesn't need to, since he has
been able to send out "astral forms" that can see anywhere he wants to since
the earliest days.
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David Ferguson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 March 2007
Location: Ireland
Posts: 6782
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| Posted: 26 January 2009 at 2:58pm | IP Logged | 2
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He was standing at the time and didn't want to let the bad guys know that he knew they were there. They were protected from telepathy too.
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Rick Whiting
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 April 2004
Posts: 2215
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| Posted: 26 January 2009 at 3:31pm | IP Logged | 3
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In regards to whether or not Xavier built Cerebro, I recall reading an issue of Cable back in the 90's (I think it was the -1 issue) where it was revealed that Xavier built Cerebro (and I think the Danger Room as well) with the help of a younger Cable who had just arrived from the future. I really wish Marvel would retcon that story.
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John Bodin
Byrne Robotics Member
Purveyor of Rare Items
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 3911
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| Posted: 26 January 2009 at 3:34pm | IP Logged | 4
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Thanks for the Cable connection, Rick -- that might have been stuck in the back of my head, fueling the idea that Xavier concieved Cerebro but didn't necessarily build it himself. The fact that for some unknown reason Cable has always reminded me of Tony Stark may have added to the idea that someone like Reed, Tony, or Hank may have been involved.
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Michael Huber
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 August 2007
Location: United States
Posts: 3338
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| Posted: 26 January 2009 at 4:50pm | IP Logged | 5
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i wouldn't put Xavier on that list, his focus is too tight. The others are better able to deal with more diverse areas.
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Chad Carter
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 June 2005
Posts: 9584
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| Posted: 26 January 2009 at 6:21pm | IP Logged | 6
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To me, "smart" means diverse, with the ability to cross-pollinate from a basic intellectual background and apply intellect to any situation...kind of what college is supposed to do for kids, I guess. Basically, as the line goes from Mamet, "What one man can do, another can do." These men can do just about anything with an application of brains.
But anyhow, the seven people I find most intelligent:
- Bruce Banner
- Hank Pym
- Vic Von Doom
- Reed Richards
- Tony Stark
- High Evolutionary
- Kang/Immortus
Take away everything else that makes them, but on brains alone these men can do anything.
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Robert Bradley
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 September 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 4883
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| Posted: 26 January 2009 at 6:42pm | IP Logged | 7
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Chad - I agree with everyone on your list except for Kang. I don't know if he's ever been established as having an elite level of intelligence, outside of his skills as a conqueror. His main claim to fame as an inventor was his Time Sphere which he based on Doom's earlier time machine.
MODOK is someone I'd forgotten about though. You can lump him in there with the Leader, the Mad Thinker, Mr. Sinister, Peter Parker, the Black Panther, Hank McCoy and now, Amadeus Cho. (and I'm probably leaving out somebody obvious)
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Dan Avenell
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 06 March 2008
Posts: 1038
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| Posted: 26 January 2009 at 6:47pm | IP Logged | 8
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How intelligent is Galactus? He has plenty of techno-goodies, though maybe he can just 'think' them to work... but he's no dummy surely.
As for the 7 dumbest people in the MU...
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Brad Brickley
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 29 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 8289
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| Posted: 26 January 2009 at 7:01pm | IP Logged | 9
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Always thought Peter Parker was pretty intelligent, not sure if he's top 7, but he's a top talent for such a young lad. At least originally.
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Chris Durnell
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 February 2005
Location: United States
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| Posted: 26 January 2009 at 8:15pm | IP Logged | 10
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I have my own list. It has some familiar names already mentioned, as well as some characters I feel are overlooked. I am limiting myself here to human characters - and I'll include mutants and inhumans as well, even though none make my list. I will exclude supernatural, cosmic, or alien beings. I'll give my list first, and the follow with a list of accomplishments for each.- Dr Doom
- High Evolutionary
- Mister Fantastic
- Baron Zemo
- The Leader
- Henry Pym
- Mole Man
I think looking at real accomplishments is important because some smart characters actually don't have very many accomplishments compared to others.
Dr Doom
(Victor von Doom)
- Inventor of Time Travel (I believe
that all of Marvel’s time travel machines are essentially duplicates of
Doom’s original)
- Understands the Power Cosmic –
the fundamental power of the universe – enough to steal the Silver Surfer’s
power, and to duplicate it in the body of Tyros the Terrible
- Stole the Beyonder’s power
- Able to learn the alien Ovoid’s
technique of mind switching
- One of the leading
practitioners of the Mystic Arts in Marvel
- Mastery of robotics (various
examples)
- Designed and built a
self-contained “power suit”
High
Evolutionary (Dr Herbert Wyndham)
- Undisputed master of biology, genetics
and evolution
- Creator of the New Men
- Creator of artificial planets
(Counter-Earth)
- Mastery of star travel
technology
- Restored the Savage Land to life after its destruction
by Terminus
- Inventor of the Atomic Steed
- Investigated the Celestials
Mister
Fantastic (Dr Reed Richards)
- Discoverer of faster-than-light
travel
- Discoverer of the Negative Zone
- Discoverer of Sub-Atomica
- Inventor of unstable molecules
- Proven ability to understand
and use advanced non-human technology (Inhuman, Skrull, Kree, whatever he
gets from the Watcher)
Baron Zemo
(Heinrich Freiherr von Zemo)
- Inventor of Adhesive X – a universal
adhesive with only one known solution
- Inventor of the disintegrator
and “death ray” technology
- Mastery of robotics
- Master of rocket technology
- Inventor/Discovery of “ionic
energy” that creates very powerful superhumans
The Leader
(Samuel Sterns)
- Superhuman problem solving, memory,
and logic
- Mastery of most – if not all –
scientific disciplines (robotics, physics, medicine, biology, etc.)
- Inventor of the Humanoids
- Performed life saving surgery
on the Hulk
- Able to teleport the Hulk
across the universe to the Watcher’s planet
Henry Pym
- Discoverer of Pym Particles
- Invented means to communicate
with and control insect life
- Mastery of artificial
intelligence (Ultron)
- Advanced understanding of
robotics, androids, and artificial life (repairs of the Vision)
- Mastery of bio-chemistry
- Ability to produce super powers
in human subject (wings and stings of the Wasp)
Mole Man (?)
- Discoverer of Subterranea
- Inventor of visor that allows
the almost blind to see
- Mastery of underground geography,
plate tectonics
- Mastery of zoology – discovery of
many unique forms of subterranean life and “monsters,” training and
control of said life
- Ability to master advanced
Deviant technology
In my opinion, the achievements of Dr Doom and the High Evolutionary are in a class by themselves. No one even comes close.
I have Mr Fantastic and the original Baron Zemo next because I feel they have the next strongest accomplishments. Mister Fantastic is simply a pioneer and explorer of too many new discoverers. I include Baron Zemo because I feel he is very neglected in the Marvel pantheon of geniuses. His achievements would be impressive today, but he did them in the 1940s when the scientific knowledge and infrastructure were much less. That some of his discoveries are now "commonplace" in contemporary Marvel only indicates how much Marvel super science is actually based on Zemo's discoveries.
I place the Leader next because he is simply a polymath with many inventions. However, the Leader has no way near the number of accomplishments he should have. Something is clearly causing him to underachieve. I think because his scientific skills and intelligence are essentially artifcial, he lacks the true inspirational genius of "true" scientists.
Henry Pym is next because he has one of the strongest series of achievments in Marvel. Unfortunately, he doesn't get too much respect for them, probably because he accidentally created the menace Ultron. But he is a very strong contender. I would even say based on individual discoveries alone, he is superior to the Leader, but the Leader simply has too much width to be discounted.
Last is the Mole Man, another neglected genius mainly because people don't appreciate how much geophysical knowledge he needed to discover Subterranea. We know he can't be a crank who simply got lucky because he was able to master Deviant technology, and strong biological knowledge that allowed to him to control the various monsters of the underworld. This is a very, very significant accomplishment - and in two fields, not just one.
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Chris Durnell
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 February 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 1235
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| Posted: 26 January 2009 at 8:16pm | IP Logged | 11
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I didn't include Tony Stark because for all his
engineering genius, Stark isn't a scientist. He has had no independent
discoveries. He has only applied what others have discovered. This
is not to belittle Stark, but to place him in context.
I don't find Bruce Banner to be in the same league as the others. His one
induspitable achievement is the Gamma Bomb, and he did not forsee the effects
for which it is best known. Both Dr Octopus and the Radioactive Man are
probably his equals in radiation and physics.
I haven't include people like Kang the Conqueror or Maximus because they
inherited a lot of scientific advancement from their respective societies (41st
Century Earth and the Inhumans) and thus can't claim credit. Maximus in
particular seems to underperform for his intelligence. I would probably
give Kang some credit for advanced chronal theories and experimentation
(especially once he becomes Immortus), but that is merely one accomplishment.
And of course there are a host of other very intelligent characters - Black
Panther, the Wizard, Gremlin, Hank McCoy, and many others - but none have
anywhere near the dpeth or width of discovery as these seven. Saying
Amadeus Cho is the world's seventh smartest person is like saying Marilyn Vos
Savant has the world's highest IQ. Possibly true, but utterly
irrelevant. Vos Savant won't even be a footnote in the history books
while scientists like Einstein, Heisenberg, Von Braun, and Hawking are likely
to be remembered for their actual achievements in advancing humanity and
scientific knowledge. Same is true for the respective characters on
Marvel Earth.
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Paul Kimball
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 September 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 2202
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| Posted: 26 January 2009 at 8:39pm | IP Logged | 12
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Chris's list seems perfect to me, except for the mole man who I agree is
underrated but I would see someone like Modok there instead.
I wonder where the fixer rates on this list?
How about the creator of the original human torch(can't remember his name)
seems like successfully creating artificial life with 1940's technology should
get a lot of points.
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Topic Closed)
