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Joel Tesch
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Posted: 07 August 2008 at 10:32am | IP Logged | 1  

On a side note: aren't all Batman costumes home-made? ...  Still, when Bruce Wayne decided to become Batman and he had to make a costume right?  The three Kents made Superman's costume in the Man of Steel

That's not the point. It's the grandeur of it all. It shouldn't LOOK homemade. Since you use Man of Steel as an example, JB's Superman's costume looked as it should (not home made).

I think Pope's and Mazzucchelli's costumes look far better than Neal's version.

You seriously think Pope's costume looks better than Neal's version? I know art is subjective...but seriously?

Incidentally, take a look at Detective Comics #27 and especially The Bat-Man's gloves and they bear an uncanny resemblance to Pope's

Well, they're gloves...but they still don't look like Bugs Bunny gloves like Pope's do.

All of these artists are very stylized.  They all have very distinct ways of doing the characters

Yes, but they still had a heroic looking Batman. Pope's Batman looks like some homeless guy with a malformed head in a dime store costume. U-G-L-Y...and it don't got no alibi.

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John Byrne
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Posted: 07 August 2008 at 10:39am | IP Logged | 2  

Still, when Bruce Wayne decided to become Batman and he had to make a
costume right? The three Kents made Superman's costume in the Man of
Steel.

••

You honestly imagine Bruce Wayne at work with a needle and thread?
With his money?

Sure -- the Kents made the costume for Clark, and when they first did
so, after they were retconned into his origin, it would have been logical to
draw it looking much as did those of circus performers of the day. High-
wire acrobats and their ilk, after all, provided the inspiration for
superhero costumes. But Joe Shuster, understanding what it was he
was drawing, did not draw Superman in a baggy leotard. He drew
Superman wearing what those circus performers wanted us to
imagine they were wearing -- something that clung like a second
skin, with nary a wrinkle in sight.

This is what seems to be increasingly among the Lost Arts when it comes
to superhero comics. The simple understanding that these characters
are supposed to be iconic, they are supposed to be "better than
us", and that even if they are Peter Parker working with whatever he finds
in his aunt's sewing drawer, the result is something sleek and smooth
and not representative of fabrics pulled off the rack.

(Even Jack Kirby, who began FANTASTIC FOUR with a more "realistic"
approach to their uniforms, eventually tightened and tailored them into
something more traditional.)
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Al Cook
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Posted: 07 August 2008 at 10:43am | IP Logged | 3  

Back to "Pope Loves Kirby" for a moment.

I've finally seen the connection in the Avengers images there.

It's this

isn't it?
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Derek Rogers
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Posted: 07 August 2008 at 11:19am | IP Logged | 4  

While I do agree that heroes need to look iconic - "larger than life" - it should be in their home (re:most "visible") title.  I don't have a problem with Pope's Batman.  He's made it no secret that Batman is one of his favorite characters.  Paul Pope was hired to interpret Batman in his OWN style.  People that want to see a Paul Pope Batman don't want to see it drawn like how it's presented in Detective Comics.  It's also an Elseworlds book which caters more to a niche market with more than a passing familiarity with the source material.  It's fun to see the deviations from norm in an Elseworlds book.

As for "Pope loves Kirby" topic, I think this picture shows his appreciation of The King.  It's an homage to his "favorite Marvel comic".

In his words: "You know, that one where Doctor Doom takes the Invisible Woman hostage and then tricks the rest of The Fantastic Four into going back in time to steal Blackbeard's treasure...and it turns out The Thing was actually Blackbeard and wanted to stay back there and remain king of the pirates because there he had respect but in modern times he was just a freak? That one."



Edited by Derek Rogers on 07 August 2008 at 11:33am
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Paulo Pereira
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Posted: 07 August 2008 at 11:23am | IP Logged | 5  


 QUOTE:
Well, they're gloves...but they still don't look like Bugs Bunny gloves like Pope's do.

So, Pope basically gave Batman Mickey Mouse's shorts and Bugs Bunny's gloves.  Swell.

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John Byrne
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Posted: 07 August 2008 at 11:31am | IP Logged | 6  

Oddly enough, the "Mickey Mouse shorts" is one place where I do see a Kirby
influence. Jack had a habit of drawing his characters with trunks with "legs"
in them. Other artists seem to have picked this up -- even where it's not
really appropriate (ie, on model). Pope, here with Batman. Green Lantern in
NEW FRONTIER.
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Jeff W Williams
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Posted: 07 August 2008 at 11:34am | IP Logged | 7  


 QUOTE:
Isn't it a matter of personal taste in art (unless a professional artist is doing the talking)?

It's a matter of personal taste even if it's a professional artist doing the talking.   That said, I'm more likely to be interested in reading what a professional artists opinion is than someone who is not one, if only for getting his perspective.  However if I like a piece of work, I'm not going to stop just because so-and-so proclaimed it wasn't right.

But I still don't like Pope's Batman.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 07 August 2008 at 11:37am | IP Logged | 8  

However if I like a piece of work, I'm not going to stop just because so-and-
so proclaimed it wasn't right.

••

"I don't know much about art, but I know what I like!" This, to me, has
seemed since the first time I heard it the single most unassailable
comment. We can argue with taste, but in the end, that's just what it is --
taste.
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Paulo Pereira
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Posted: 07 August 2008 at 11:37am | IP Logged | 9  


 QUOTE:
Oddly enough, the "Mickey Mouse shorts" is one place where I do see a Kirby influence. Jack had a habit of drawing his characters with trunks with "legs" in them.

I don't mind the legs; I actually prefer those (if they're done as Kirby did them, anyway).  I'm referring to the big holes for the laces.  Honestly don't understand the laces; strikes me as nothing more than a misplaced quirk.



Edited by Paulo Pereira on 07 August 2008 at 11:39am
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John Byrne
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Posted: 07 August 2008 at 11:40am | IP Logged | 10  

The laces seem to suggest boxing trunks, giving this costume an "off the
rack" look.

Which, perhaps, it is meant to have. This is not Bruce Wayne, right?
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Paulo Pereira
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Posted: 07 August 2008 at 11:49am | IP Logged | 11  


 QUOTE:
Which, perhaps, it is meant to have. This is not Bruce Wayne, right?

Fair points.



Edited by Paulo Pereira on 07 August 2008 at 11:49am
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Derek Rogers
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Posted: 07 August 2008 at 11:50am | IP Logged | 12  

You know, I'm going to put this in white as a SPOILER in case someone does want to read it.

SPOILER:

Batman Year 100 is set in 2039.  One hundred years after the "first" appearance of Batman.  It's a dystopian world where there is no privacy and he is pursued by the great-grandson of Commisioner Gordon.  You never truly find out if this is a new Batman or the legendary old one although IMO, I think it might be a clone.

That's also why he's "dirty".  The comic opens up with him being chased by a pack of dogs.  He's a fugitive from the law.



Edited by Derek Rogers on 07 August 2008 at 11:54am
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