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Derek Cavin
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Posted: 07 August 2008 at 11:54am | IP Logged | 1  

("Home-made" being a problem with the way a lot of artists draw
Superheroes, these days. Must suck the grandeur out of it! Must suck the
grandeur out of it!)

The exact problem I have with Alex Ross. Great artist, but all his stuff looks like his neighbor, or best friend in a homemade costume.

Maybe that's why artists are late, they're too busy drawing each and every stitch of the homemade costume.

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Mark McKay
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Posted: 07 August 2008 at 1:18pm | IP Logged | 2  

Looking at that post by Derek Rogers on the previous page, what I really love about Pope's work is his ink line, and the way he works with ink in general. It looks spontaneous and well thought out at the same time.
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F. Ron Miller
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Posted: 07 August 2008 at 1:46pm | IP Logged | 3  

Of course it comes down to taste and expectations. I like the look of the
Pope stuff very much. And it persuades me to consider making a
purchase. I can only hope the writing is as novel as the drawing. My
preference is often towards highly stylized work. Sometimes (sometimes)
it is about the singer as much as the song. (Sinatra knew full well how to
take liberties with an old standard). For what I find lacking in a lot of
comics is a point of view backed with conviction.

This terrific discussion reminds me of a favorite line from Amadeus.
Mozart was getting hammered by the royal court for taking liberties with
a certain libretto. Frustrated by this he says: "Come on now, be honest!
Which one of you wouldn't rather listen to his hairdresser than Hercules?
Or Horatius, or Orpheus... people so lofty they sound as if they shit
marble!"
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John Byrne
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Posted: 07 August 2008 at 2:42pm | IP Logged | 4  

Which one of you wouldn't rather listen to his hairdresser than Hercules?

••

It's more like, if someone is telling a story about Hercules, I'd like it to be
about Hercules.
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Michael Retour
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Posted: 07 August 2008 at 2:51pm | IP Logged | 5  

Heh, Pope reminds me of beer: an acquired taste. 


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Michael Retour
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Posted: 07 August 2008 at 3:15pm | IP Logged | 6  

Seams?  Costumes?  Get out early issues of the FF or some Kirby Challengers of the Unknown issues and then let's talk about seams/costumes and how they are to fit.  Sheesh!

Pope captures the feel of Kirby more than most of the people working at Marvel who were told to draw like Kirby years ago. 

If you can't see it... well, perhaps further study is in order. 

As the man said Pope was hired to do Pope's Batman.  It was set in the future and I believe one story was set in the past like Gotham By Gaslight.  If you don't like Pope that's swell but it doesn't matter does it? 

Comics are a fantasy world. 

If I remember Spider-Man has his own home-made costume. 

Somehow we're not communicating ideas properly and for that I do apologize.  

I really loved Pope's retelling of OMAC's origin in SOLO.  That was sheer pleasure. 

For JB: Yes, I would imagine either Bruce making his own costume or a machine making it and a machine Bruce made.  Who else?  Alfred?  Would Bruce send out for his costumes?  Do they ever get ripped?  When you did Superman his cape was always getting torn to shreds and I wonder who replaced it?  I don't know know.  Maybe there is a Bat-Taylor...

"Comics are a fantasy world, where good people do good things because
they're good, and evil never triumphs."

"Dragging these characters into our real world of murky motives and fabric
with seams does them and the archetypes they represent a great
disservice."

Comics are a mess, a total mess.  You must not have been around during the Silver Age. 
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Al Cook
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Posted: 07 August 2008 at 3:19pm | IP Logged | 7  

Huh?

Never mind. It doesn't matter.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 07 August 2008 at 3:23pm | IP Logged | 8  

Seams? Costumes? Get out early issues of the FF or some Kirby
Challengers of the Unknown issues and then let's talk about
seams/costumes and how they are to fit. Sheesh!

••

Already noted -- and noted that Kirby dropped these elements as his
work became more iconic.

++

Yes, I would imagine either Bruce making his own costume or a machine
making it and a machine Bruce made. Who else? Alfred? Would Bruce
send out for his costumes?

••

Why wouldn't he? He's rich beyond our wildest dreams. Why would he
waste time on playing seamstress when he can hire someone to do it?

++

Comics are a mess, a total mess. You must not have been around during
the Silver Age.

••

When heroes were heroes and villains were villains and "iconic" was the
biword? When there was no garbage in the streets, everybody was White
(or sometimes villainously Yellow) and women "knew their place"? THAT
Silver Age?
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Al Cook
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Posted: 07 August 2008 at 3:25pm | IP Logged | 9  

The Silver Age that I grew up reading comics during maybe?

Right. As I said, never mind, Michael. It doesn't matter.
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Michael Retour
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Posted: 07 August 2008 at 3:25pm | IP Logged | 10  

On a side note: aren't all Batman costumes home-made? ...  Still, when Bruce Wayne decided to become Batman and he had to make a costume right?  The three Kents made Superman's costume in the Man of Steel

That's not the point. It's the grandeur of it all. It shouldn't LOOK homemade. Since you use Man of Steel as an example, JB's Superman's costume looked as it should (not home made).

I think Pope's and Mazzucchelli's costumes look far better than Neal's version.

You seriously think Pope's costume looks better than Neal's version? I know art is subjective...but seriously?

Incidentally, take a look at Detective Comics #27 and especially The Bat-Man's gloves and they bear an uncanny resemblance to Pope's

Well, they're gloves...but they still don't look like Bugs Bunny gloves like Pope's do.

All of these artists are very stylized.  They all have very distinct ways of doing the characters

Yes, but they still had a heroic looking Batman. Pope's Batman looks like some homeless guy with a malformed head in a dime store costume. U-G-L-Y...and it don't got no alibi.

Pope's Batman looks heroic to me and yeah I do like it better than Neal's version.  Pope's take on the character embodies Batman.  You say they look like Bugs Bunny gloves but so what?  You don't like Pope's version of Batman and that and what gets you a cup of coffee?  It doesn't matter.  I think Pope has captured the essence of Batman here.  That's my opinion and just as valid as yours.  It doesn't matter if everyone says the Earth is flat does it?  It doesn't mean it is. 

John has a character in Doom Patrol and I believe she made her own costume (although I could be mistaken) to the Chief's objection if I recall. 

I could go on with examples throughout comic history. 


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Michael Retour
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Posted: 07 August 2008 at 3:31pm | IP Logged | 11  

John you've talked about the downfall of comics many times, many places.  It seems to me you're picking and choosing here.  I seem to recall you talking about Lee and Kirby's run on the FF being the greatest run on any series (I could be wrong) and that is the Silver Age I am talking about. 


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Al Cook
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Posted: 07 August 2008 at 3:32pm | IP Logged | 12  

Nobody is saying your opinion about Pope's Batman isn't valid, Michael.

We're just disagreeing with it.

Edited by Al Cook on 07 August 2008 at 3:33pm
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