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Steve Lieber
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 July 2004
Posts: 295
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| Posted: 01 August 2008 at 8:43pm | IP Logged | 1
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It might seem impossible for any artist to meet Toth's standards, but the Doug Wildey backup story that that appeared in the same issue managed to do everything Toth demanded, and made it look effortless.
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Martinho Correia
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 July 2006
Location: Italy
Posts: 209
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| Posted: 02 August 2008 at 12:33am | IP Logged | 2
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I found this to be way too negative. Many of his comments are confusing or
incorrect. When Steve asked Toth for clarification, Toth got angry and
refused.
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Andy Mokler
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 January 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 2799
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| Posted: 02 August 2008 at 12:35am | IP Logged | 3
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There is a follow up by Rude here...
http://pwbeat.publishersweekly.com/blog/2006/09/22/fight-tot h-vs-rude-now-with-rude-response/
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Dan Avenell
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 06 March 2008
Posts: 1038
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| Posted: 02 August 2008 at 3:36am | IP Logged | 4
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I love Steve Rude's stuff, but pretty much everything Toth wrote was fair, if extremely harshly delivered.
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Knut Robert Knutsen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 September 2006
Posts: 7374
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| Posted: 02 August 2008 at 4:13am | IP Logged | 5
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Alex Toth was known to be highly critical (of his own work as well). In a modern context, I guess it would be like asking Simon Cowell to comment on your singing (insisting on it for months, even) and then being upset when he told you that you had a great voice but that you needed to man up and use it properly.
And Steve Rude's response does seem awfully defensive. When you're asking a fellow professional for a critique, coming back with a "no, no, it's not really me making a mistake, you just don't get it" is kind of missing the point. If you did it right there would be no confusion (I've made that mistake myself. Trying to defend my storytelling or art choices at the top of my almost hysterically screechy voice when what I should have done was listen.)
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Paulo Pereira
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 24 April 2006
Posts: 15539
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| Posted: 02 August 2008 at 5:34am | IP Logged | 6
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QUOTE:
There is a follow up by Rude here...
http://pwbeat.publishersweekly.com/blog/2006/09/22/fight-tot h-vs-rude-now-with-rude-response/ |
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Gave me a 404.
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Dan Avenell
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 06 March 2008
Posts: 1038
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| Posted: 02 August 2008 at 6:29am | IP Logged | 7
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Take the space out of 'tot h'
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Joe Zhang
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 12857
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| Posted: 02 August 2008 at 6:42am | IP Logged | 8
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To me, this is Toth giving the Dude a bar of 14K gold. But that's the Asian masochist in me talking.
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Marc Baptiste
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 June 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 3655
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| Posted: 02 August 2008 at 6:42am | IP Logged | 9
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Toth could have been less angry in his critique, but Rude's response should have been two words: "thank you".
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Paulo Pereira
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 24 April 2006
Posts: 15539
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| Posted: 02 August 2008 at 7:02am | IP Logged | 10
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Thanks, Dan.
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Paulo Pereira
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 24 April 2006
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| Posted: 02 August 2008 at 7:33am | IP Logged | 11
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If Rude says he did research certain things, then Toth is essentially calling him a liar. And it's not as if Rude ignored Toth's advice. He merely questioned it and, as Martin pointed out, when Rude asked for clarification, Toth got angry and, according to Rude, cussed at him. I'm not saying Rude is 100% correct here, but he does raise a few valid points of his own. In any case, it's possible to be brutally honest in a critique without being curmodgeonly about it.
That said, I am reminded of one sequence by Rude that bothers me--
The problem here is (or seems to be) that in panel 2, the Moth is seen looking through the window, behind the goon with the gun. In the next panel he's striking the goon full in the front. How does that work? And if Goon #1 is standing so close to the window, as seen in panel 1, how do two other goons end up in front of Goon # 1? Doesn't seem to make sense. Also, in this sequence, Rude never gives an establishing shot of the room and he is overall very sparse on backgrounds. He just seems to go with the flow and is not overly concerned with figure placement and logical flow. That's just my overall feeling.
Edited by Paulo Pereira on 02 August 2008 at 7:33am
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133318
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| Posted: 02 August 2008 at 7:33am | IP Logged | 12
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One of the reasons I generally try to avoid portfolio reviews is that offering comment on someone's work invariably spawns a torrent of excuses or justifications, or just flat out whining. (Take a look at the current Challenge thread, for instance.)
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