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Trevor Giberson
Byrne Robotics Chronology
Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 1888
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| Posted: 01 August 2008 at 11:18am | IP Logged | 1
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Very cool...
http://conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?p=1024328
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Zaki Hasan
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 8105
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| Posted: 01 August 2008 at 11:39am | IP Logged | 2
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Wow, he pulled no punches!
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Trevor Giberson
Byrne Robotics Chronology
Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 1888
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| Posted: 01 August 2008 at 11:40am | IP Logged | 3
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I learned a lot from reading this.
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CJ Grebb
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 449
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| Posted: 01 August 2008 at 12:12pm | IP Logged | 4
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Can you imagine the "Bad Toth" stories that would have arisen in this day and age if Toth had given such an amazingly honest appraisal of a fan's work at a con?
I suspect very much this is exactly the kind of commentary JB would be giving in the Art Challenge threads if he had a mind to.
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Joel Tesch
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Joined: 19 May 2006
Posts: 2830
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| Posted: 01 August 2008 at 12:26pm | IP Logged | 5
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Wow. Great stuff.
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John Peter Britton
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Joined: 17 May 2006
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 9129
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| Posted: 01 August 2008 at 12:29pm | IP Logged | 6
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Seen it before in a Alex Toth interview.
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Paulo Pereira
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Joined: 24 April 2006
Posts: 15539
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| Posted: 01 August 2008 at 12:32pm | IP Logged | 7
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If Timm was slightly put off of Rude's storytelling by Toth's critique, I'm wondering if I should read it. Besides that, I'm impressed that Toth took the time to hand write his critique but it's a bit dense and tough on the eyes.
One comment: why does Toth have a problem with the splash page camel??
Edited by Paulo Pereira on 01 August 2008 at 12:34pm
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Michael Thompson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 15 September 2005
Posts: 214
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| Posted: 01 August 2008 at 12:40pm | IP Logged | 8
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Toth is as famous for his hand-written letters/critiques as he is for being a master artist. Paulo, I encourage you to pick up Comic Book Artist Magazine, esp. the back issue devoted to Toth. It's amazing and insightful. Also, the Dear John book of correspondence Toth had with John Hancock. Great stuff.
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Anthony Frail
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Joined: 09 October 2007
Posts: 960
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| Posted: 01 August 2008 at 12:41pm | IP Logged | 9
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Pretty interesting, but I think that these criticisms could be leveled at 99% of
comic book artists, including Jack Kirby and many other greats. There were
plenty of time John Buscema faked backgrounds (and plenty of times he
didn't, natch) but he still remains one of the absolute best of all time.
Certain things he deems problems such as rear views on main characters
and panels where the characters are very small don't seem fully valid; these
are storytelling choices he might not ahve made, but I wasn't confused by
them at all and the pages read easily enough to me.
Still, this is a great find; if Rude can get reamed like that, then I'm sure Toth
would beat me with a tire iron for my art!
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CJ Grebb
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 449
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| Posted: 01 August 2008 at 12:52pm | IP Logged | 10
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One comment: why does Toth have a problem with the splash page camel??
****
A couple of things I can see:
First, the camel's head and the palm tree are almost on a tangent with each other - same shape, same width. The palm tree almost looks like it's growing out of the camel. It's bad composition
Next, it looks like he didn't want to draw the camel's face, so he drew a generic view of the back of the head. A camel has a very interesting head, full of a lot of character, it should be drawn.
Lastly, there was an obvious opportunity to focus the reader's eye back on Johnny's dad by simply having the camel looking at him - It would have set up a nice compositional triangle too, between the Camel, Johnny's dad, and Johnny in the background. Instead, the camel apperas to be looking at the helicopter in the distance. To what end? I the reader's eye was on the human figures as it should be, the way Johnny's posed pointing towards the 'copter would sell that point.
(And no, I couldn't do better. But that doesn't make my critique invalid.)
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Glenn Greenberg
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Joined: 16 April 2004
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Posts: 6746
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| Posted: 01 August 2008 at 12:54pm | IP Logged | 11
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There's one artist I worked with on one of my last projects for Marvel who
would have benefited greatly from an Alex Toth critique.
And this artist was no newcomer--he'd been in the business for YEARS by
the time I worked with him.
Edited by Glenn Greenberg on 01 August 2008 at 12:55pm
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Paulo Pereira
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Joined: 24 April 2006
Posts: 15539
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| Posted: 01 August 2008 at 1:01pm | IP Logged | 12
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Thanks for the recommendation, Michael.
Toth raises many valid points (I think his problem with the camel, for instance, is that it's too small). However, one point I want to comment on: Toth seems to want the story to be crystal clear without the dialogue. He seems particularly distressed about the mysterious woman whose face is never shown. What if this is integral to the story? How can Toth tell that it isn't?
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Topic Closed)
