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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 08 July 2008 at 5:19am | IP Logged | 1
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"(the editors made him change the white to green because of bleed through from the other side of the page due to the cheap printing process of the day) "•• From what Chris told me, Dave did not know about the color change until he saw the make-ready for the issue. The colorist made Phoenix green and yellow because those were Marvel Girl's colors.
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Ferran Delgado
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 10 October 2006
Posts: 580
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| Posted: 08 July 2008 at 5:23am | IP Logged | 2
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Original of Phoenix's first appearance, also from Daniel Lang's collection.
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Matt Hawes
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 16518
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| Posted: 08 July 2008 at 9:01am | IP Logged | 3
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It's cool seeing the Cockrum model sheets! I met him in Indianapolis a few years ago, and he was a really nice guy!
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Gregg Halecki
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 03 June 2005
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| Posted: 08 July 2008 at 11:38am | IP Logged | 4
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Met Dave about 15 years ago at a con in NYC. I think he was wearing some kind of Star Trek ears. I picked up an Avenger's page from him for like ten bucks. I wish I had the appreciation for him then as I do now.
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Geoff Gibson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 April 2004
Location: United States
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| Posted: 08 July 2008 at 11:48am | IP Logged | 5
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Seeing the evolution of the Phoenix costume is pretty cool, as is the original concept for Nightcrawler (which is friggin' genius)! I like how the Phoenix costume evolved from a Captain Marvel (Shazam) style to what we know. Cockrum really liked sashes didn't he?
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133741
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| Posted: 08 July 2008 at 1:48pm | IP Logged | 6
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Sashes, thigh boots and opera gloves. Must have done that combo 100 times. And somehow managed to make it look different every time!!
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Michael Penn
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 April 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 12804
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| Posted: 08 July 2008 at 2:16pm | IP Logged | 7
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Who was looking at Dave Cockrum's Jean Grey and thinking Famke Janssen was a match?!
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Andrew Hess
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
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| Posted: 08 July 2008 at 2:27pm | IP Logged | 8
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To be fair to those producers (I know...I know...), I'm not sure they saw any of Cockrum's (or JB's) characters when they made the first movie. And Jean has gone far enough "off model" in the comics that they could cast nearly any good looking woman with reddish/brownish hair and get pretty close.
On the matter of casting a six-foot hunk for the role of Wolverine, however...
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Robert Bradley
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 September 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 4887
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| Posted: 08 July 2008 at 2:50pm | IP Logged | 9
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After DC turned down NC as part of a villain team for the Legion of
Superheroes, Dave added an X to Nightcrawler's costume when showing it to
Marvel. ... Perhaps one of the reasons Dave may have gotten some creator
compensation from Marvel.
Wouldn't this be something similar to Siegel & Shuster take an already developed Superman concept to National Comics? And as we've seen recently, that did give them a viable copyright claim. Did Cockrum also develop any of the other characters (Storm, Colossus or Thunderbird) prior to presenting them to Marvel?
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Robert Bradley
Byrne Robotics Member
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| Posted: 08 July 2008 at 2:50pm | IP Logged | 10
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Cockrum's designs did all have a certain similarities -
     
  
Edited by Robert Bradley on 08 July 2008 at 2:55pm
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Jason Czeskleba
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 30 April 2004
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| Posted: 08 July 2008 at 7:34pm | IP Logged | 11
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Robert Bradley wrote:
| Wouldn't this be something similar to Siegel & Shuster take an
already developed Superman concept to National Comics? And as we've
seen recently, that did give them a viable copyright claim. Did
Cockrum also develop any of the other characters (Storm, Colossus or
Thunderbird) prior to presenting them to Marvel? |
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If Dave had filed a lawsuit, he could have quite clearly shown that Nightcrawler was not created work for hire for Marvel, since he had ample evidence he'd created the character for use in the Legion at a time he was not even working for Marvel yet. He would have had a very good chance of prevailing in a lawsuit, which is no doubt a big part of why Marvel decided to give him some sort of financial settlement (details undisclosed) in exchange for him agreeing to cede full ownership of the character to them.
None of the other characters were fully developed prior to Dave's time at Marvel, though Storm was in part derived from ideas Dave intended for the Legion. This page has an excellent article about the creation and development of the new X-Men. Storm's costume was largely based on that of an entirely different character Dave created for Marvel called the Black Cat. But her face and hair came from a prospective Legion character called Quetzal, and the weather powers are similar to another Legion character called Typhoon.
Edited by Jason Czeskleba on 08 July 2008 at 7:40pm
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Marc Baptiste
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 June 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 3655
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| Posted: 08 July 2008 at 8:30pm | IP Logged | 12
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JB.
Very interesting back-story about Phoenix's costume's color-scheme. I have to confess the "big kid" in me loves the green and gold. Not just because I am used to it. But, because I spent years priding myself on my brilliantly creative "filling in the gap" that the Phoenix-force took Jean's Marvel Girl costume and "rearranged" the molecules to give her her new costume. However weak the newborn Phoenix might have been when she first emerged from the bay, she certainly had more than enough power for that. The only hole in my theory... Jean wasn't wearing the Marvel Girl costume when the shuttle crashed.. ARGH! That realization came years later.
On another note: WOW, Cockrum was GREAT! He is one of many, many artists I came to appreciate late in life. My first exposure to his work was when Dave succeeded you to embark on his second X-Men tour. I lamented losing you and thought "who was this hack" they got to follow you. Of course, I also spent the better part of a decade pronouncing Phoenix FOE-EEN-IX, never making the connection to the pronunciation of the city Phoenix, which I could pronounce just fine. REALLY!!! I wasn't as stupid as I sound. Just... complicated.
Edited by Marc Baptiste on 08 July 2008 at 8:32pm
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