Which I guess begs the next fantasy question...

Simon Williams with JKD ability against the Hulk likens to, say, Chuck Norris in his apex against, er, George Foreman in 1973, one of the most powerful, vicious punchers anybody has seen.

Norris vs Foreman? That's a rumble!

Okay, it's probably not absolutely linked to what we're talking about, but I love boxers. I was looking for something else and ran across this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=related&v=6iDlzL7zr NU

I have no idea what's going on here, but that's a man in the middle of that melee.

QUOTE: Well, Ben could probably beat the Hulk at poker.

And pool.

I don't think this necessarily opens the door to Dragon Ball Z'ing the MU or whatever. The Hulk is the Hulk. He's a savage, but he's also only as trained as Doc Banner was trained, which was zero. The Hulk has animal instincts, so even if you take away the ridiculous strength increase when raging, you have a creature which fights to its natural strengths, like a tiger, or rhino, or shark.

Thor and Hercules have been fighting in their fashion for thousands of years. Spider-Man has Spider kung fu. Cap has his commando training clicked up to the Nth degree by his physical perfection. Wolverine has a combo of berserker and samurai affectation. Nova has Kree kung fu. There's plenty of characters who have "styles".

And you'll note, more than not, they are the most memorable for having styles. Which is important when creating a character who fights, IMO.

I'm still not sure of the bias against superhuman characters becoming better fighters. Ben Grimm is an extreme, but who has a problem with Wonder Man becoming proficient at a martial style? And why WOULDN'T he?

If it's a convention of superhero comics that all strong guys are sluggers without much technique, that's fine.

But I don't see a direct correlation between the two that removes the possibility of fighting techniques that would "seperate" these characters. In my view, there's WAAAAY too many super-strong/invulnerable characters. It's utterly boring from the standpoint of finding characters to enjoy who also have a vulnerability that mades them human.

Ben Grimm has ALWAYS had that vulnerability, by his nature.

But Wonder Man is as generic as Wonder Bread, next to all the other strong guys. Why not do something to actually distinguish him from the others?

See, I'm not in the camp of "normals" always becoming martial artists, like the Question. I can see why Denny O'Neil did it, but I don't agree with it. The Question was one of the few normal guys who had a brutal, street-fighter style he could rely on, instead of Asian Fire. Damn near all normal strength fighters are martial artists in both universes. Hawkman gets a little strength boost from Nth metal, but he's distinguished not only by costume, but by his various "archaic" fighting techniques. That's cool, and you could spot Hawkman in a crowd even without the costume, using that mace or cestus or any ancient weapon.

I want to see diversity from a couple of these characters like Wonder Man who just kind of sits there, doing the exact same thing within the limited imaginations of today's writers. Costume design isn't enough.