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Mike Purdy Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 29 April 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 1448
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Posted: 01 July 2008 at 6:47pm | IP Logged | 1
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Ben is about heart...that's where his edge is.
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Flavio Sapha Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: Brazil Posts: 12912
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Posted: 01 July 2008 at 6:48pm | IP Logged | 2
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Chad may be onto something here. JB said this a little while ago:
"The Iron Fist could take down the Hulk, at full charge.
The trick would be actually hitting the Hulk!"
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Chris Durnell Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 February 2005 Location: United States Posts: 1235
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Posted: 01 July 2008 at 6:50pm | IP Logged | 3
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It's disappointing that the Thing is no longer one of the major stars of Marvel as he once was. Unfortunately some of that is due to the era of JB's work. The cancellation of Marvel Two In One removed much of Ben's involvement with the Marvel Universe, and his departure from FF removed him from most people's awareness. Then the character was aimless for far too long. These several decisions kind of compounded on one another.
The Thing always had gumption. Ben simply didn't show any fear (or at least, he never let fear stop him) and always took on the Hulk when needed. The only other person who did that was Thor. That was always his edge in fights against the Hulk, the Thing would stay in the fight long enough that he might get lucky.
Another aspect of the Thing-Hulk fight is that when not enraged, the Hulk is not the strongest one there is. People keep forgetting this. The Abomination was always stronger than the Hulk when not angered. The Thing should be too. That means if he can end the fight quick enough, the Hulk can go down.
As for fighting styles, the Thing would do better at wrestling than martial arts (and incidentally, the Thing does know how to wrestle quite well). Chokes and holds could exhaust the Hulk. We know lots of times when the Hulk gets tired and passes out. The Thing only needs position, and he can beat the Hulk. But not in a boxing match.
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Joel Tesch Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 May 2006 Posts: 2828
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Posted: 01 July 2008 at 6:54pm | IP Logged | 4
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Don't forget, the Thing was the Unlimited Class Wrestling Champion!
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Aaron Smith Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 06 September 2006 Location: United States Posts: 10461
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Posted: 01 July 2008 at 7:26pm | IP Logged | 5
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Chad, I like most of your ideas, but this one doesn't quite work for me. Ben is a brawler, a smasher, not a finesse fighter.
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Flavio Sapha Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: Brazil Posts: 12912
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Posted: 01 July 2008 at 7:49pm | IP Logged | 6
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Kung Fu is dead. Ben should take up GRACIE JIU JITSU.
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Bryan White Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 February 2005 Posts: 460
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Posted: 01 July 2008 at 8:14pm | IP Logged | 7
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I've always pictured Ben to be everyman, or at least how we'd want to be. We may not be the smartest, strongest or the best looking but we're loyal, we don't give up, we do that dirty work and grumble a bit about it, but we're there to take the first shot, so someone else does not have to. He's not my favorite but I think he's a pretty admirable.
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Wallace Sellars Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 May 2004 Location: United States Posts: 17698
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Posted: 01 July 2008 at 8:32pm | IP Logged | 8
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I like the issue of POWER MAN that JB drew (#48?) in which Danny Rand uses
the Iron Fist to punch Luke Cage across the street and into an old deserted
building... only to have the big guy get back up and take the fight to his
future partner!
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Paul Kimball Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 September 2006 Location: United States Posts: 2192
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Posted: 01 July 2008 at 8:59pm | IP Logged | 9
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isn't it more or less canon that part of Ben's act is to speak as if he's
uneducated? Yes, i think he would refuse to acknowledge he knows how
to fight beyond just brawling, but I would guess somewhere between
military training and hanging out with Steve Rogers he's learned a few
moves that would set him above a common brawler.
Edited by Paul Kimball on 01 July 2008 at 9:21pm
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John Bodin Byrne Robotics Member
Purveyor of Rare Items
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 3911
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Posted: 01 July 2008 at 9:15pm | IP Logged | 10
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My own answer to this is that in my mind Ben lacks the flexibility and agility required to execute all but the most rudimentary of wrestling/martial arts moves -- I don't recall any reference to Ben being fast or agile in addition to being a strong, massive, melee-type heavy-hitter. Ben hits hard, but he's never been shown to be quick or fast (not like Simon Williams, who IS strong AND fast/quick).
I see Ben falling into the "lumbering" category -- more like a Sumo wrestler than a ninja. He does smackdown, with the occasional throwdown tossed in for good measure -- THOSE are his strong points.
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Chad Carter Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 June 2005 Posts: 9584
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Posted: 01 July 2008 at 10:26pm | IP Logged | 11
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Exactly John.
What I'm talking about would be a "hard" style, in tune with Sumo. Bruce Lee talking about JKD as "no-style", so Ben learning internal breathing and the like doesn't suddenly turn him into Jet Li.
Ben could learn breathing methods that would increase his punching power substantially. He doesn't have to slug it out with the Hulk, he has to HIT the Hulk with force enough to knock him out before his EDIT Hulk's strength increase begins.
If Ben has always had trouble getting to the Hulk that fast, he could learn how to hit far harder than he does.
Edited by Chad Carter on 01 July 2008 at 10:27pm
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Joel Tesch Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 May 2006 Posts: 2828
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Posted: 02 July 2008 at 12:07am | IP Logged | 12
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He doesn't have to slug it out with the Hulk, he has to HIT the Hulk with force enough to knock him out before Hulk's strength increase begins.
Yes, but when does Ben ever encounter the Hulk in this early stage? Usually if the two meet, it's bc the Hulk is already on some kind of rampage and thus, already angered. If the Hulk isn't angry yet, then it's likely that Ben wouldn't need to fight him.
Regardless, Ben is not the type of character to learn breathing methods, etc. He's currently skilled (and strong) enough for 95% of his fights. The rest...well, those would be opponents so powerful that extra fighting skills aren't going to matter. Again, the Hulk takes on ALL the Avengers...we shouldn't expect Ben to be able to take him on one on one successfully.
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