I've had the thought again and again over time:

I've always been irked that the Thing, good old big-heart Ben Grimm, gets the floor wiped with him by the Hulk. It's a tradition of beat-downs that was actually mocked. It's a punchline now.

Back in the 1970s, I didn't think this way. Every Hulk/Thing confrontation had meaning, before Hulk got his power ramped up to ridiculous levels. Ben didn't stand a chance.

So, say you're Ben Grimm. You're a tough Yancy Street fighter, you were trained for combat in WW 2 (or whatever war, he's a vet is the bottom line), you become cosmic ray-irradiated and become an 800 pound plus monster heavyweight.

Problem is, the Hulk is 1000 pounds of unfettered fury.

So, within the rules of comics, and without being mutated, how does Ben Grimm use his strength in a more trained fashion, to perhaps not receive the kind of smacking he usually gets?

Should Ben try a little martial arts? Ben learned some wrestling stuff, I guess, and I know he learned some rudiments of judo, but he's (was) buddies with Captain America...if anyone could teach Ben how to use his strength and leverage and timing better, it'd have been Cap.

What would be the reaction of Ben using an aikido reverse on the Hulk? A hip throw? A reverse choke? A Thai elbow?

Wouldn't Ben welcome fight techniques to be used against the super-heavyweights of the universe? Thor and the Hulk-level threats?

Does this ruin the character of Ben Grimm for you? I'm no martial artist myself, with only autodidact fight capability, but if I was fighting constantly and strength didn't lend itself to victory, I'd want some training. Serious training.

There's some nasty power martial arts that Ben could become proficient in...rather than showing him benching weights, shouldn't Ben be doing katas?

I'm thinking about doubling Ben's effectiveness, even against Thor or Hulk level opponents, with martial skills. Ben can already at least bug them, but he could also learn stuff in conjunction with his weight and power which would allow him to avoid getting, well, hammered into the ground.

I mean, Ben isn't going to start wearing sandals and spouting philosophy, but he's applying fight techniques to his power. If you're a fighter sort of character, and there's plenty of those, isn't it feasible? Even Wolverine had samurai training.

Definitely. This isn't "Nobody Bother Me". This is Ben Grimm taking the time to learn how to use his toughness with some training...if Cap America became the Thing, does he no longer fight like Cap?

I'll go further: I think Cap's training with Ben's body, minus the agility of course, enables him to knock out the Hulk before the "stronger" effect takes place.

Hell, I'd pay good money to see Cap-Thing throwing that shield! Imagine THAT.

Anyway, it's not a myth that a fighter who trains to fight is more effective than a big slugger. It's just the slugger has a much higher chance of landing one finishing blow, and of course probably have a head made of granite too. We're talking about Ben hanging in with the Hulk...at this point, Ben's like the weak sister of the MU. Everybody and his mother is stronger. He needs something more.

Remember Marv vs. Kevin?  Great example of different sized fighters (at least in comics/entertainment).  Kevin took out Marv's eyes and clobbered him.  Round two: Marv got physical control of Kevin (with the handcuffs, awesome) and it was lights out.

The Thing is as tough as the Hulk, and Ben's no pantywaist. The Hulk's problematic rage/strength ratio removes a cool dynamic from comics: the Hulk/Thing fight that meant something. Everyone thought those were cool. We all waited for them.

Over the years, this conflict has lost nearly all of its appeal. The Hulk is so much stronger than anyone, and the writers don't even take the basic time to come up with a scenario to save this longtime favorite hero/hero clash.

I argue that Ben's popularity (which in the '70s rivaled Spider-Man and the Hulk) both grew from the second Hulk/Thing fight (FF 25), and has gradually waned as any battle between the two has been relegated to a mere afterthought (WORLD WAR HULK...)

Ben today is nowhere near the superstar of Marvel he once was. There's a reason for that beyond changing tastes. I'd like to see Ben receive a boost to his character, making the playing field not seem so uneven. He's NOT just another lumpy brute in a comic universe filled with them. He's the ORIGINAL lumpy brute.

Ben Grimm should go nowhere near the martial arts. That's not him. He's been getting clobbered (no pun intended), just for the reason you cited...the Hulk's strength has been amplified to ridiculous levels.

Plus, it takes whole teams to take down the Hulk, so I have no problem with Ben losing to him one on one. Doesn't mean he doesn't know how to fight already...it just means the Hulk is THAT damn nasty.