I get the impression that the Jim Shooter-ism problems must have culminated around the Hulk returning to the Kirby Hulk stage, since it's not even implied in the stories that was coming. JB was promised a free hand, but apparently someone on high got cold feet? Considering the tanking sales and JB's status at the time, I find it hard to believe he was given an editorial mandate to maintain the status quo Hulk.

Was very sorry to see the run on the Hulk by JB end so soon and suddenly. Very disappointed that all the storylines weren't able to see light.

Does anyone know the trend of the initial sales to both The Incredible Hulk and Alpha Flight once the creator switch was made?  What was the immediate impact on them?

Reading that link about the change, I was a little surprised to read that JB's AF sales were declining (at least I'd be surprised by anything more than a normal decline from the initial #1 sales when a whole bunch of people pick up the title to see what it was like until it plateaus at the "normal" level) and that it was thought Mantlo could revive it.  Considering how reviled the run is now, I imagine that after only a few issues of icnreased sales (assuming every old reader stayed for a while and Mantlo bringing over his old readers) it must have nosedived.

Furthermore, I can't imagine JB's Hulk not exploding upward in sales so that by issue # 319 this was selling way above it used to.

I could go off on these crazy What If? scenarios all day.

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Not crazy at all, Chad.  I find your theories and everyone else who invested in JB's Hulk run very interesting.  The possibilities are very interesting and I appreciate the passion in your words and everyone else.  It makes me hope for him to revisit this theme of character driven story developments.  Something lacking in a lot of books.  As for Stan and Kirby's Hulk, I thought that Hulk had very sinister thoughts--I know he never embellished on them because he had distractions but I also feared what if the Hulk actually went through to what he thought? 

Yeah, I'm with you on that Nathan about seeing 320...coming so soon after the dissapointment of John not being on ALPHA FLIGHT anymore and then to lose him on the HULK so quickly was a bitter pill. I'm in the minority here but as not up to snuff what came immediatly after JB it was way better than the horrible stuff that came with PAD. The HULK an Las Vegas enforcer?

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SER: In fairness, I think the PAD Gray Hulk run was still recognizably the Hulk. He was very much the Kirby Hulk aside from not being green. The Banner/Hulk relationship was still there and the Hulk was still savage but was canny enough to be aware of the relationship and to not be essentially Goofy but more Donald Duck.

I would have removed the Day/Night transformations -- there was an issue in which Banner "lets out" the Gray Hulk during the day to fight the Super Skrull. A Hulk smart enough to find ways to "cure" Banner makes for interesting reading.

As for Stan and Kirby's Hulk, I thought that Hulk had very sinister thoughts--I know he never embellished on them because he had distractions but I also feared what if the Hulk actually went through to what he thought? 

That's my favorite Hulk. He really, really, really hates Mankind. His first words were, "Get out of my way, insect." To Rick Jones. Someone should have taken off on that whole conceit...if the Hulk is Banner's rage, but Banner's rage has its own persona, why does the Hulk hate and distrust Mankind even before being hunted by it? Again, is it an instintual understanding? Or is the Hulk more than he seems? I mean, you could go anywhere with that. The Hulk could be from another dimension, born from a rift caused by the Gamma Bomb. I mean, if you really wanted to screw with readers...defeat their expectations. Banner isn't mutated, he's a conduit, say. Maybe he trades places with the Hulk, like the old Cap Marvel/Rick Jones thing. And if that's the case, where does Bruce go? What would happen if Bruce remembered where he goes when the Hulk takes over...stuff like that.

Somewhat, though Langkowski was sort of the conduit for a Dark God, Great Beast rather.

In the case of Banner, and we're speaking from my little throw-off idea, we might have assumed all these years that, even when in control of the Hulk with his mind, Banner was NOT Banner, but only a part of the Hulk's consciousness. Meanwhile, the real Banner traveled back and forth from wherever the Hulk actually came from, "recalled" back to Earth when the Hulk went back to wherever. There's nothing to say that the Banner-controlled Hulk was ACTUALLY the Bruce Banner who had no control over the Hulk.

I mean, variations of this kind still represent an illusion...you make readers THINK that's what you're saying instead of actually 100% confirming it, as Peter David pretty much did with the MPD issue. Now MPD's considered rote for the character, which is wrong. This is just a story, and the story could be true within the fictional universe, or merely another supposition.