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Joakim Jahlmar
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 10 October 2005
Location: Sweden
Posts: 6080
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| Posted: 31 July 2009 at 1:07pm | IP Logged | 1
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Tom wrote:
"Gals who don't like the 'men' in wo-'men' -- they don't want their sex
to be a dirivitive. It's a bit strident, in my opinion, and it doesn't
fool anybody, either. But there it is."
Couldn't they just have settled on "wombs" and be done with it?
It seems to me that an appropriation strategy would be more effective. Basically turning the word "man/men" to feminine usage.
And "womyn" is incidentally even more ironic, given Y chromosomes and what not.
Steve wrote:
"If lesbians feel that strongly about the word women (and it should be
pointed out that is also a feminist thing as well), I honestly have no
problem with them using their own term. But the term they decided to
use? One letter difference? That looks ridiculous, sounds ridiculous if
you actually choose to pronounce it that way, and requires an
explanation?"
Agreed. If they really wanted to get around it, why not borrow a word from a language where the word for man isn't a part of the word for woman, e.g. French's femme (which is handily available in English through femme fatale), or Swedish's kvinna.
Tom wrote (in response to Taavi):
"'Herstory' drives me crazy, too. Any corruption of a word because it 'looks like' another... sigh. Amazing the tiny, insignificant things
to which we take offense."
I'd actually say that depends on the context. Despite the differing etymology there is certainly no denying that history has to a large degree been a "his-story" as it were, and the "her-story" does in the right context function as a reminded of it. BUT, here as so often, context is king!
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Arc Carlton
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 13 April 2009
Location: Peru
Posts: 3492
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| Posted: 31 July 2009 at 1:12pm | IP Logged | 2
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There are all kinds of lesbians, like gay guys.
____________________
That's a fact.
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Moyer Hall
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 09 August 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1135
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| Posted: 31 July 2009 at 1:59pm | IP Logged | 3
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I haven't met any cool lesbians down here yet... they are really butchy down
here. We do have a cute little spikey haired one that delivers our mail at
work now though...hmm..
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Steve D Swanson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 May 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 1374
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| Posted: 31 July 2009 at 4:22pm | IP Logged | 4
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In a way I like the Her Story kind of thing in that I do believe a lot of women's contributions have been minimized (or mischaracterized) over the years. That said I hate that a lot of that stuff I've heard of tends to be along the lines of; "Oh, the male bastard History tells you that this man actually wrote that novel but we all know it was really his wife writing under his name." Or scientific discoveries, or great art but the writing thing really bothers me.
Partly because it is often said of authors when there is no proof of any such thing (and can often easily be refuted by pointing out the men started their literary careers before meeting their wives), and partly because of the assumption behind it which seems to be that women are naturally better writers and there's no way a man could have written such a beautiful novel.
And the worst part is that sometimes that probably happened but with the way the accusation has been thrown out as almost a blanket condemnation (by some really strident feminists) it becomes very difficult not to turn a jaundiced eye to any such accusation making it less likely that the true author would ever really get their due credit.
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Juan Jose Colin Arciniega
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 6413
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| Posted: 31 July 2009 at 4:52pm | IP Logged | 5
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We have a lesbian couple as our friends...it's not easy...they are women at the end.
And i don't have anything against women...it's just that they are different from men...
Edited by Juan Jose Colin Arciniega on 31 July 2009 at 6:06pm
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Joakim Jahlmar
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 10 October 2005
Location: Sweden
Posts: 6080
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| Posted: 01 August 2009 at 6:16am | IP Logged | 6
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Steve wrote:
"Partly because it is often said of authors when there is no proof of
any such thing (and can often easily be refuted by pointing out the men
started their literary careers before meeting their wives), and partly
because of the assumption behind it which seems to be that women are
naturally better writers and there's no way a man could have written
such a beautiful novel."
I think it's a sad counter reaction to the fact that it has happened. I mean, the fact that a whole bunch of female writers have had to operate under male pen names says a lot I think.
But also, I found it quite revealing to read parts of Dorothy Wordsworth's journals. Let me first off say that I've never really understood the greatness of William Wordsworth to begin with. I honestly feel he's one of the most overrated British poets out there (even more so of the Romantics). My view of him didn't exactly brighten when it became clear to me that much of what little I did find some appreciation for he'd basically nicked from his sister. Who's gone down in history as something much lesser known. Probably in part because of her gender and also in part because her brother stole her material for public use. Sad, really.
However, it's also interesting to note how the view has changed. How one views collaborative contributions. E.g., as far as I've understood, the Eddings have always worked in more or less the same collaborative manner. Yet all the earlier works are credited to David Eddings, while suddenly on later ones, it started reading David and Leigh Eddings as credited authors. At first, perhaps needless to say, my own assumption was, "oh, so now he's writing with his wife" but then I heard (can't remember the source, sorry) that they'd always worked together in the same fashion; ergo if she was a co-author on the later works, logic dictated that she'd been on the earlier ones as well (if the input indeed was the same).
Still, it is weird. Much like looking at T. S. Eliot's early draft of "The Wasteland" with Ezra Pound's notes and commentary. Considering how much of Pound's creative advice Eliot actually took in reworking the poem, it really becomes rather hard to say that Pound wasn't a co-author of the poem. Not a gender thing of course, but it yet again begins nibbling at the edges of qualifying authorship.
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Joakim Jahlmar
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 10 October 2005
Location: Sweden
Posts: 6080
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| Posted: 01 August 2009 at 6:19am | IP Logged | 7
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Oh, and vis-a-vis the the whole lesbians issue...
For the record, I know at least two absolutely wonderful lesbian women, a couple, who are tremendously nice and absolute geeks/nerds and I feel ever so lucky to have made their acquaintance.
And not because they're lesbians, of course, but because they're simply marvellous people. Which I guess is my way of saying, incidentally like, that we're all just people. Some nice, some not so nice, etc. And most of which has very little to do (if anything at all) with the social labels we construct vis-a-vis sexuality, skin colour, class, and what not.
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Pedro Tavares
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 11 May 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 669
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| Posted: 01 August 2009 at 6:25am | IP Logged | 8
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i just thought it sounded silly saying - or typing "(...) more lesbians than gay males"
:)
But yeah i usually use gay for everybody :)
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Arc Carlton
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 13 April 2009
Location: Peru
Posts: 3492
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| Posted: 01 August 2009 at 4:39pm | IP Logged | 9
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We have a lesbian couple as our friends...it's not easy...they are women at the end.
And i don't have anything against women...it's just that they are different from men...
______________________
I understand that. There was an old saying that said if she doesn't make your life impossible then she is not a woman... or something like that. I'm not saying men are not annoying, but some women have a special way of being annoying.
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Jodi Moisan
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 February 2008
Location: United States
Posts: 6808
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| Posted: 02 August 2009 at 12:25am | IP Logged | 10
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My niece left today and I am going to miss her so much, after about the fourth day of her visit, her "time of the month" was over, she became the sweet remarkable niece I knew and loved. She was here 3 weeks and it flew by, we had a great time doing crafts, visiting local points of interest (one being where James Dean lived, Fairmount Indiana) and basically were just silly girls, which is a nice change from living with all guys.
But I will say I missed getting on the computer and coming to hang out with you guys.
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Tom French
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 07 January 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 4154
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| Posted: 02 August 2009 at 4:17pm | IP Logged | 11
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You're a "guy's gal", Jodi. That's why I loves ya!
Do you play poker?
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David Ferguson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 March 2007
Location: Ireland
Posts: 6782
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| Posted: 02 August 2009 at 5:20pm | IP Logged | 12
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Yay. Jodi's back.
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Topic Closed)
