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Donald Miller Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 03 February 2005 Location: United States Posts: 3597
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| Posted: 12 March 2009 at 9:43am | IP Logged | 1
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I, for one am tired of having my vocabulary crippled* by overly sensitive minorities and overly protective nanny wanna-bes.
I don't mean that we should be dropping racial epithets left and right and be mean spirited in our language. I do however, resent having to explain in advance the use of the term retarded, which may or may not refer to a person's mental development, or niggardly which has nothing to do with race.
Don
*edited to add that this pun is intentional
Edited by Donald Miller on 12 March 2009 at 9:44am
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Moyer Hall Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 09 August 2004 Location: United States Posts: 1135
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| Posted: 12 March 2009 at 9:56am | IP Logged | 2
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I agree Don...
Did anyone see Kathy Griffin's stand up, where she talk's about Macy Gray?
It's hilarious.
She says something like "Just what is wrong with Macy Gray? She's
atleast a little bit retarded. A little bit."
Then she goes into a shpill about the word "retard", and that we can call her
a retard, she can call us a retard, because it's just a fun word.
Love her...
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Joakim Jahlmar Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 10 October 2005 Location: Sweden Posts: 6080
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| Posted: 12 March 2009 at 9:56am | IP Logged | 3
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Don, I agree. I'm all for people taking responsibility for how they express themselves in the world*, but it seems to me that most of the people at the front of the PC-gone-wild wave not only in many cases isn't at all involved in the issues at hand but use the polite PC approach to get around having a debate about underlying things. I mean, let's not create better working conditions or raise the salaries for cleaners or garbage men (mostly doing the job most of us would rather not think about), but let's call them hygiene technicians or something. That'll make them happy for a while, and we won't have to deal with the real issues.
* e.g. while I'm certainly for the freedom of speech and expression, I don't think an ongoing debate about what ought or should be said is out of bounds, the "right" to being able to sepak freely, does after all not equate a freedom from responsibility in the world or ethical dimensions to what may not be a good, or smart, thing to say at any given time. Or put differently, even if you would have a "legal" right to freely express an insult... does that necessarily make it the right thing to do?
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Al Cook Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 21 December 2004 Posts: 12734
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| Posted: 12 March 2009 at 9:58am | IP Logged | 4
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Are you saying I should stop occasionally referring to you as a Swedish
meatball, Joakim?
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Joakim Jahlmar Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 10 October 2005 Location: Sweden Posts: 6080
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| Posted: 12 March 2009 at 10:12am | IP Logged | 5
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Nah, you can keep your köttbulle, Al. I've no use for the meat anyway. ;)
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Geoff Gibson Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 21 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 5744
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| Posted: 12 March 2009 at 10:16am | IP Logged | 6
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Don:
Respectfully, I don't think anyone is trying to remove existance of a word -- I think they are simply asking that the term not be used in a deragatory way against people (or about people) who cannot help the way they are. Its a question of usage.
"Retard" or "retarded" depending on how its used can be a very hurtful word to special needs people and the for the people that love them. When it is used to imply stupidity or used in a derogatory way I have problems with it. I will admit I am guilty of using the term, its one of my many flaws I am trying to correct.
But the issue you raise is fair -- after all, as George Carlin pointed out, the word itself is a word. It is neither good not evil. It is how we use words that matter. If the word "retard" is used as in "the legislation proposed by congress will retard the work of researchers throughout the nation" -- then its a different matter entirely -- I don't think you'd hear an outcry. But in most cases when people object to the usage its because its being used to imply someone is stupid, or lesser than another. And knowing special needs people nothing could be further form the truth. What I think makes it especially hurtful is that a great many special needs people cannot defend themselves. I don't think they are overly sensitive.
I must also confess that I have some very personal reasons (which I prefer not to divulge) for my view and which may make me "overly sensitive." But I feel the use of the word "retard" can be as hurtful as using the term "nigger" or "fag." So you could count me in as one of the overly sensitive. Its not the word that hurts -- its the way its used.
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Michael Cross Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 16 October 2005 Location: Canada Posts: 1304
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| Posted: 12 March 2009 at 10:21am | IP Logged | 7
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Al = Archie Bunker, yay!
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Geoff Gibson Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 21 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 5744
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| Posted: 12 March 2009 at 10:23am | IP Logged | 8
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He called him a meatball not a meathead.
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Juan Jose Colin Arciniega Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 6413
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| Posted: 12 March 2009 at 10:26am | IP Logged | 9
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Hey Michael, don't feel bad about that relationship with your ex...at least you learned something.
And retarded...there are better labels for that kind of people....
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Donald Miller Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 03 February 2005 Location: United States Posts: 3597
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| Posted: 12 March 2009 at 10:36am | IP Logged | 10
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Geoff, I think we are, for the most part, on the same page. I would especially veer away from using derogatory term toward people. I would never, for example say " that person is such a retard." I wonder would it not be okay to use the term when discussing ideas, concepts, designs by calling them "retarded", especially seeing as how in modern usage we don't really refer to people with special needs as retarded anymore. I can see how , stretching a bit you can say that the term itself is hurtful, but if not used contextually against a person, it seems they would have to jumpo in front of the verbal bullet so to speak.
Much in the way of a teen saying "that is soo gay", does not really infer a hatred of homosexuality.
I appreciate your input on the topic. I hope you know that . of course, no offense is intended.
Don
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Joakim Jahlmar Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 10 October 2005 Location: Sweden Posts: 6080
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| Posted: 12 March 2009 at 10:42am | IP Logged | 11
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Apropos of the "that is soo gay" line, I've told you guys about the "gay buccaneer" thing right?
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Moyer Hall Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 09 August 2004 Location: United States Posts: 1135
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| Posted: 12 March 2009 at 10:55am | IP Logged | 12
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This girl was riding my bumper a couple years ago... I was already going
over the speed limit by 10 miles and this bitch was literally inches
from my bumper, on a one lane road, swerving and throwing her hands
up in the air, so of course I had to antagonize her by GOING SLOWER than
he speed limit.
We turn into a restaurant parking lot to go eat, and she makes the next
turn after us feet away, stops her car, shouts out the window "FAGS!" Me
and my boyfriend looked at each other, busted out laughing and both
shouted back at her "YEAH?"
Does antagonizing a miserable woman with road rage immediately mean
you're gay? I guess so...
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