The way marriage was originally designed, women were like cattle and are still at times, being asked to "obey" the man.

Jodi -

Thanks for your candor and humor !   LOL on what Chuck said above ! 

I would agree and disagree with your above comment.  Some marriages (regardless of the couples' world view/religion) treat women poorly.  A modern example of this would be some marriages in Islamic countries where women have no rights at all.  Terrible things happen to these women, and it is a tragedy. But then there are also good marriages (regardless of the couples' world view/religion) in which women are treated very well.

I've also seen the opposite side when men were treated very poorly by their wives.  Permutations and combinations of both good and bad abound.

I am in favor of husband and wife each giving each other 100% (rather than just 50/50).  When they do this it fosters an environment of (to borrow Howard Mackie's comments in another thread) commitment and compromise.  At some point (and often more than once) any husband or wife will do things (or not do things) that disappoint the other.  This is why I like Paul's words in Colossians 3:13,

Bear with each other and forgive whatever grievances you may have against one another. Forgive as the Lord forgave you.

When one stops and considers how much the Lord can and does forgive, then any opportunity for pettiness, resentment, even retaliation can be set aside.  For further insight into all this, please the Parable of the Unmerciful Servant in Matthew 18:21-35.

Regarding your comments on obedience, a careful reading of Ephesians 5:21 - 6:4 reveals that Christ is in submission to the Father, wives submit to their husbands and children submit to their parents.  It is very easy to stereotype "submission" in today's culture as a negative thing.  But Paul is helping his readers understand that in the above relationships, there are leaders and followers.  As an example, think for a moment if it would ever be right for parents to submit to their children.  I am not talking about showing them preferential kindness, but actually turning the leadership responsibilities of home and family over to the kids.  Obviously that would create all kinds of difficulties and chaos.  Thus, it is the parents who are the leaders, and the kids who are the followers.

In like manner, a wife's submission to her husband is a very positive thing.  She agrees to follow her husband's leadership in the sense that he makes the final decisions.  This means he interacts with her and consults with her (as his helper and partner), but that ultimately, he must be the one to exercise final authority.  For example, sometimes the man/husband has to make difficult decisions for the good of the family, even when he and his wife disagree.  And even if his decision is a bad one, the responsibility/consequences is/are his, not hers.  Being a leader is never easy. 

Husbands are not to Lord it over their wives and treat them with condescension as if they were door mats to be walked all over in every area of the marriage.  Rather husbands are called upon to love their wives as Christ loved the church.  Jesus set the example of supreme love when he sacrificed himself to a brutal death on the cross. 

Thus, husbands are called upon to make daily loving sacrifices for the good of their wives.  In some cases this might be something like a husband turning off Monday Night Football in order to spend time with his wife and do something she's interested in.  Or it might mean the supreme sacrifice of the man jumping in front of an oncoming automobile and pushing his wife out of harm's way.  He dies, she lives.  Whatever the circumstances, ordinary or spectacular, He loves her as Christ loved the church.

With all of that in mind, I think any woman who is married to a man who will love her in the manner of Christ's sacrificial love would find it a privilege to love her husband in return by deferring to his leadership. 

To sum it up, this is what I meant above, when I said a husband and wife should give each other 100% !  :-)

Ephesians 5:21 - 6:4 reveals that Christ is in submission to the Father, wives submit to their husbands

Sorry Dan but I think this is a big bunch of crap. (not what you say, what the bible says)

 I am not talking about showing them preferential kindness, but actually turning the leadership responsibilities of home and family over to the kids.  Obviously that would create all kinds of difficulties and chaos.  Thus, it is the parents who are the leaders, and the kids who are the followers.

What about kids that turn their parents in for drug use or being sexually abused? 

 Husbands are not to Lord it over their wives and treat them with condescension as if they were door mats to be walked all over in every area of the marriage

But there are those men that are not as giving and with the bible saying it's "true"  some have the twisted belief they control their wives. There is a whole bunch of things in the bible I have a problem with, this being a big one.

Dan you are a good guy , but there are some really rotten apples out there that use the bible to endorse dominating women.

What about kids that turn their parents in for drug use or being sexually abused? 

Jodi -

Thanks for raising good questions !  I am totally confident that the Lord would be in favor of children turning their parents in for drug abuse, physical abuse, sexual molestation, etc.  It would be horribly wrong to uphold one biblical doctrine at the expense of others' lives, emotions, safety and purity.

The situations you refer to above result from a couple of problems.  First, some people will misuse certain biblical passages to their own advantage.  Second, they willfully act against the broader systematic whole (concord/agreement) of Scripture.  If a parent was harming their child in anyway and using Ephesians 6:1-4 as a means to defend their ungodly actions, then that parent has clearly forgotten (and is being disobedient to) the Second Greatest Commandment to love their neighbor as themselves.  No neighbor is closer than one's children (or one's spouse) !

I understand your frustration, and identify with your anger and grief.  But I don't think the Bible (or God) is at fault in these very tragic scenarios.  When people misuse Scripture for evil of any kind, they are doing just that, misusing it.  It gives Christianity/God/Jesus/the Church a bad name.  However, the Bible presents the ideal in a world that is less than ideal.  In a good and godly home, husbands/wives and parents/children can enjoy a loving, happy, safe and orderly home life based upon the principles of Eph. 5:21 - 6:4.

BTW: The Apostle Paul (when he wrote Eph. 5) would never have condoned or approved of men abusing their wives or children under any circumstances.

Regarding the value of human life, an excellent real life case study that deals with both sides of this issue (misuse and proper use of Scripture) is the treatment of Jews during WW2.  The Nazis committed the tragic error (read: sin) of genociding God's people during that war while saying all along Got Mit Uns (God With Us) !  Horrible hypocrisy !  By contrast, people like Corrie ten Boom (a Dutch Christian woman) was providing refuge for Jews in her own home, even at personal risk to herself.  When confronted by the Nazis, Corrie (and other Christians) would either give misinformation or simply lie to preserve life.

It should be obvious from history that Ms. ten Boom did the right thing (used Scripture properly) while the Nazis failed miserably in their misuse of Scripture.  They will suffer the wrath of God !

(Edited for clarification !)

Don -

I book marked it and will watch it a later date.  Thanks for posting the link.

Boo-Boo Kitty says, "Happy New Year to All !"

BTW: Those are some adorable Yorkies !

Hey, all!  Checking in on my own thread here -- been a fantastically busy Xmas break!  Not that I'm looking forward to going back to work, but at least we're going downhill towards summer now, and the hardest part of my work year is over!!!!

Now, about those JETS....  (nope, still not ready)

Glad to see you back Tom, missed your posts, now if we can get Geoff back.

Peter great picture, and beautiful Yorkies. Your dad has a kind of Kevin Bacon vibe.