Hi...yesterday we had dinner with my partner, mother and sister and a lotta friends, in the building that my partner wants to turn into a museum, in downtown. Today we are at church and we will have chritmas food again, with a lot of UK friends here.

Finding someone attractive does not mean someone wants to reproduce with them. They just like the act of sex. Sure it is the way to reproduce. But it is not the sole purpose we partake in the act. Even with people who have children, you would probably find that more times than not they had sex with the intention of enjoyment and not procreation. 

I've been with my wife for 18 years and while we enjoy sex, we have no plans to reproduce. Children are fantastic (I was one myself), but they are something my wife and I do not want. No dead-end in my relationship. I couldn't be happier.

I think I better understand your earlier question.  I am going to have to give it some more thought.  My brain has reached its limit for the day, so I will bid you a pleasant, "Good evening".  I'll check back tomorrow (12/24) or Friday (12/26) and attempt to give you an answer.

Joakim -

Maybe this will answer your previous question. If a married man and woman (married in a court of law, or in a church by a pastor or in some other religious setting by a religious leader) came to me and said something like, "We want to know and follow Jesus Christ as his disciples, what should we do?"  There are many things I could teach them.  And there are many ways I could encourage and exhort them.  One thing I would not do would be to ask them to have a 2nd marriage, as the first is both legally and morally proper.  If  on the other hand they wanted to have a "2nd marriage" because it was their own personal preference, then I would be happy to assist them.  By contrast if a man and a woman who weren't married at all (court or church) came to me with the same request as the preceding couple (to be disciples of Christ) then I would most certainly encourage them/exhort them to get married.  And when they took that step, this would be both legally and morally proper. :-)

wouldn’t that surely be to at least some extent, a mockery of marriage as a sacrament?

Joakim -

My understanding of the Creator is that He is omniscient.  He knows the thoughts, hearts and intents of all people on earth.  And for those men and women who've made a marital commitment to each other in another non-Christian wedding context (both legally and morally), I am convinced that He approves of that wedding/marriage.  God will honor the wedding/marriage vows and commitment of that couple whether they are non-Christian or if they later become Christians.  Now again, this is my own conviction and others might disagree with me.  And in some cases (as I mentioned above) some married folks leaving one religion in favor of Christianity, may desire to have a second wedding in a "Christian" format/environment.  This is perfectly fine and I can accomodate them if this is their desire.  But truthfully, after studying the Scriptures for 25 years, I don't see any biblical mandate that commands Christians who've come from another religious tradition to get "re-married" (have a 2nd wedding).  At the end of the day, my view of marriage is a life-long commitment between a man (husband) and woman (wife) until death do they part.  Everything else is cultural.  What matters is not the cultural trappings particular to any marriage, but the commitment of the couple to each other and their vows.  As a protestant evangelical, the only sacraments I am concerned with are baptism and the Lord's supper.  Someone else from a Roman Catholic or Eastern Orthodox tradition would be concerned about matrimony as a sacrament, and might (I'm not sure) be convinced of the necessity for a Christian (2nd) wedding in keeping with their conversion to Christ/Christianity.  But for me, having a Christian wedding (first or second time) is not biblical evidence of saving faith.  Many people have a Christian weddding in a church, but do not enjoy the benefits from a born-again relationship with Jesus Christ.  According to the Scriptures, there are only three tests for saving faith: (1) Does the couple believe in Christ for salvation?  (2) Does the couple endeavor to obey the commands of Christ as presented in Scripture?  (3) Does the couple love others (both believers and non-believers)?   What it all boils down to is belief and behavior.  Christian behavior will flow from Christian belief or as I like to say, good works do not save (Ephesians 2:8-9); but they are the result of salvation, coming from a heart full of gratitude (2 Corinthians 5:14-15).  For more on the 3 tests of faith, please see the First Letter of John in the New Testament and the book of James, chapter 2.

Re: your question about weddings, yes I do officiate.  But not currently, as I am on sabbatical !  :-)

Merry Christmas all!

Danielle had this made as a thank you card and I thought it was pretty cool so here it is.

So why does it have to be between a man and a woman then? That's a
cultural trapping.

Al -  

You ask an important question.  The Scripture has your answer.

From the Scripture, starting in Genesis 1:27, we see God creating man and woman in his image.  This is a supracultural event (existing outside of and beyond culture) that sets in motion the pattern for marriage as established by God.  This is followed by 1:28 in which God commands man and woman to (among other things) procreate.  All of this takes place before any "culture" was ever established.

We see another supracultural event in Gen. 2:20-24.  This is the follow-up and expanded version, a more detailed elaboration of God's creative work from Gen. 1.  Here in Gen. 2, Adam is joined to Eve in a one-flesh relationship that becomes the first marriage, and the pattern of all subsequent marriages.  Notice Gen. 2:24,

For this reason (referring to 2:20-23 that precedes vs. 24) a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife and they will become one flesh.

Again, just like the events in Gen. 1, the events in Gen. 2 take place before any "culture" was ever established.

Later in Scripture, we see Jesus Christ being engaged in debate with the Jewish religious leaders about what (if any) concessions are allowed for divorce within the cultural framework of Old Testament Judaism.

Jesus' reply is one that catches the Pharisees by surprise.  Jesus doesn't side with the established cultural traditions and rules of either Rabbi Hillel or Rabbi Shammai pertaining to divorce.  (Note: both Hillel and Shammai had elaborated on the concessions for divorce as discussed in Deuteronomy 24:1-4.)  Instead, Jesus takes the discussion back to God's plan from the very beginning (again, a supracultural event) where he says the following:

MT 19:4 "Haven't you read," he replied, "that at the beginning the Creator `made them male and female,' 5 and said, `For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh' ? 6 So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate."

All that to say, that marriage between a man and a woman (the pattern instituted by the Creator) is not subject to cultural trappings.  At the time of Adam & Eve's marital union, there was no Jewish or Christian or any other type of culture in existence.  Thus, marriage as an institution finds its origins in events that are supracultural.