Dan here is the thing that I have a problem with, lets say we go back in time and I am a southern woman that does charity work for black charities, I  volunteer at soup kitchens. I am a good christian woman.  But I am at a cocktail party and the subject of civil rights comes up and I make the statement that while I am friends with some , I iust don't feel black people should be allowed to marry.

Black people are different from whites, because of a bioligical difference that gives them darker skin. A person that is gay, I feel, is biologically different then I am. I watched a program last night talking about twins and if one twin is gay, the other twin has a 50% higher rate of also being gay , even if they grew up apart and some scientist believe that sexual makeup happens at the 5 or 10  week mark of fetal development. (I can't remember the exact week because my son was asking me a question right when they said the number)

So the reason for my saying the thing about the southern woman is because at one time, civil rights were denied by some really "good" people. The fact she did charity work didn't make her a saint, she was giving handouts to in part, make herself feel good. But the bottom line is, if you give someone equal rights they may not need your help. Should she get points if she is helping, no, not if she is doing more damage by preventing them from getting equal rights.  

Rev Warren does good deeds because in part, because he feels that is what a good christian should do, but to the gay community the more important issue is not that Rev Warren uses them to get to heaven, they want him to not work at taking away a right they all ready had. You can not convince me he accepts gay people, if you would ask him, are you working with the gay community because you completely accept them, or are you wanting to help show them the light and change them?

I liked Billy Graham because I never knew until the last 5 years that he was a life long democrat, he kept his religion out of campaigns, he didn't preach for the rightous to back one party or the other. I do not like preachers that want political power, they scare the crap out of me.

I've always wondered if there was a genetic reason for certain gay mannerisms, or if it was just purely behavioural (for example identifying themselves to other gay men, while at the same time identifying themselves as more submissive in nature and willing to be the catcher and not the pitcher). Though I also think some of it is to act as stereotypically gay as possible in order to tell people and society in general that no one can prevent or restrict their actions or orientations.

Or it's just fun. That's my default position for why people do things that others do not understand or like; because they find it fun.

I don't like the religious right, by the by, but at times I do feel compelled to defend them. Not for their statements on gay rights (which I disagree with) but because I feel the vilification of that group (that started before gay marriage was on the political landscape) is due partly (or largely) to the way they vote. The religious right used to be the religious left when I was a kid and I don't recall them being vilified for what they believed (even though they believed then what they believe now) and used to vote for the Democrats. True, the Democrats ignored what they wanted (and lectured them for their beliefs) and didn't help them in the way that Republicans did when that group turned towards the Republicans, but they weren't the boogey men and women of American politics when they were voting Democratic. I don't think it's helpful to marginalize any group, and even when they're wrong (or perhaps because they're wrong), they should still be included in the dialogue and allowed to speak their peace. The more voices are heard, the more the truth can become clear and trying to marginalize a group and silence them it can make their arguments appear stronger than they actually are precisely because they are being marginalized. Open, respectful, dialogue is what's needed in a democratic society.

I just don’t get what there is to be so uncomfortable with. As long as everyone’s a consenting adult, I see no problem.

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I think it's genetic in origin and cultural in practice.  You're probably aware of the cliche that the more stridently anti-gay one is, the higher the likelihood that person sneaks the occasional pork sword on the side.  Well, if you have gay tendencies and you abhor/deny them strongly, you would be more likely to reproduce successfully.

Moyer if you hadn't told us you were gay, I would have known it when you said you were going to New York and "you were so happy you could spit" a straight man would have said " Yo, I'll be in NY, any of you losers want to hang out for a beer?" This and you always want to see half naked pictures of Tom. LOL

Of course I am kidding, because there are all sorts of guys that can be sensitive and straight. I think that is what makes life pretty darn cool, all of us make up this crazy wonderful world.

they should still be included in the dialogue and allowed to speak their peace.

 I agree and I am not trying to bash religion, I admire and respect people of strong faith, I do believe they should be heard and listened too. I just feel that they have taken on a "political action committee" feel. I don't honestly remember when they were more democrat, I just remember them being more individually based, they kept religion in church and to themselves.

The fact that the outspoken ones have made politics their thing and are mostly republicans, it has completely turned me away from religion. And that doesn't seem like something they should be doing. If they stay neutral and inviting and live a good and Godly life, like our man Dan, I am more drawn to them and want to check out what they got going on.

It seems like now, they not only want to save their souls, they want to force me to do things to save my own. When I don't feel it's their right or business to force a certain way of life on me. I don't care what they are doing in their own lives as long as it does no harm to others, they need to learn to stop trying to thrust their beliefs into my life.  

I just don’t get what there is to be so uncomfortable with. As long as everyone’s a consenting adult, I see no problem. And if no one’s forcing or trying to force the people so uncomfortable with it to actually take part in sexual acts or relationships which they do not to take part in,* I’m really wondering how the heck it really affects their lives in any way

Well said Wakeem

If people were trying to force those that believe in god, to not practice their faith, I would be as upset about that. I get livid when I read about church bombings and even the fact that someone tried to burn down Sarah Palins church, completely pissed me off. Heck those churches that believe when you dance with rattle snakes it makes you closer to god, I am like, have at it! Just don't force someone else to do it. I feel like we have forgotten the wonderful mom advice I am sure all of us with siblings have heard "Hey just worry about yourself and leave you sister/ brother alone."

LOL 

 * note to self: don't take a drink and read Michaels post, I almost choked laughing.

Well strictly speaking, on this over-populated mud ball we all call home, is reproduction really such a hot issue?  It's not like the human race is running a high risk of extinction any time soon... well at least not because of lack of population.

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Certainly - but we've essentially removed ourselves from most of the pressures of natural selection, and we're at least partially "suffering" from that by not allow natural pressures to work on us anymore - something Darwin was acutely aware of.  And it doesn't matter to MY genes how many people there are, I'm still driven to spread them.  We carry a lot of baggage when it comes to evolution...

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Besides, the entire reproduction drive seems a bit detached in today's world since a lot of people who concievably could reproduce opt not to even try in a lot of cases.

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I don't think I would make a good father - probably not even a good husband.  But I still, uh, keep my prostate healthy, if you know what I mean...

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And, if your argument holds, wouldn't it make more sense to be uncomfortable with the people who "deny" their sexuality and thereby spreading their genetic material and what-not?
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Not necessarily.  Men look for sex partners, women look for good fathers (I'm not speaking in modern terms at all).