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Marc Baptiste
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Joined: 17 June 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 3633
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| Posted: 22 December 2008 at 8:54am | IP Logged | 1
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Tom,
Do "gay" mannerisms disqualify gay people from being considered normal?
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Donald Miller
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Joined: 03 February 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 3597
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| Posted: 22 December 2008 at 10:30am | IP Logged | 2
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Well as far as that goes, one could say that I have adopted a few "gay" mannerisms over my lifetime. I do have a flair for the dramatic.
Marc, I don't mean to talk for Tom here, but, I took it as that there are also normal people who have adopted those gay mannerisms.
The Warren Choice:
what to say here...I am sorely disappointed. I understand what Obama is trying to do here, bridge-building, letting the Christian Right know that he is planning on representing them as well. I also agree that those are valid messages that need to be sent. I am sorely disappointed in his choice of person to send that message. It's too late now as well, should he pull back he will not only undo what he set out to do he would make it worse. I think maybe he should be even more inclusive and bring in David Duke as a speaker.
Don
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Guests
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Joined: 01 October 2003
Posts: -26
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| Posted: 22 December 2008 at 11:13am | IP Logged | 3
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Jodi -
Thanks for your thoughtful reply and kind words re: my post on pg. 182, post #17.
Peter -
Thanks for your thoughtful reply also.
Al & Joakim -
Thanks also for your kind words.
Steve -
Thank you too for your thoughts re: Obama & Warren.
Tom wrote: I took the position that the man's trying to unite a very disparate America.
I agree. Those were my thoughts also.
Don -
Thanks for your thoughts re: The Warren choice.
Joakim -
See what you've done ! I'm staring to follow your format of posting ! ;-)
Edited by Dan Walsh on 22 December 2008 at 11:22am
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Guests
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Joined: 01 October 2003
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| Posted: 22 December 2008 at 11:35am | IP Logged | 4
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Here's another question for everyone re: Rick Warren.
My wife has been reading a book by Rick's wife, Kay. Titled: Dangerous Surrender: What Happens When You Say Yes To God, Mrs. Warren explores different aspects of her Christian faith. I haven't had a chance to read it yet, as my wife hasn't finished it. But, and this is related to Obama's upcoming inauguration, the Warrens (and their church) have been actively involved in helping people with AIDS. For example on pgs. 232-233, the following outline is presented:
6 Ways Your Church Can Minister to Those with AIDS.
* Care for and comfort the sick
* Handle testing and counseling
* Unleash a force of volunteers
* Remove the stigma (replace rejection with mercy, etc.)
* Champion healthy behavior (challenge high-risk lifestyles)
* Help with nutriton and medications (distribution)
My question is this: Since the Warrens are actively helping and promoting help for those with AIDS, does this type of social endeavor change anyone's mind regarding Warren's involvement in Obama's inauguration? Yes or No? Why or Why Not?
And for all replies, both pro and con, thanks ahead of time ! :-)
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Al Cook
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Joined: 21 December 2004
Posts: 12734
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| Posted: 22 December 2008 at 11:45am | IP Logged | 5
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Good works alone cannot redeem someone's heart.
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Michael Penn
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Joined: 12 April 2006
Location: United States
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| Posted: 22 December 2008 at 11:55am | IP Logged | 6
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AIDS is not a "gay disease," whatever Warren does or not in that regard is irrelevant to his stance on same-sex marriage.
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Bruce Buchanan
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Joined: 14 June 2006
Location: United States
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| Posted: 22 December 2008 at 12:04pm | IP Logged | 7
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Tom wrote: I took the position that the man's trying to unite a very disparate America.
I agree. Those were my thoughts also.
************
That's how I see it as well. I can understand why some folks would be upset by Warren's involvement in the nomination. I don't agree with Warren on this issue, but I'm not sure that leaving him (and, by extension, his followers) out in the cold is the best approach.
Being inclusive sometimes means putting up with views that don't jibe with ours, and I think that's all Obama is trying to do. Like I've said since Election Day, I didn't vote for the man, but I believe he deserves a honeymoon period to get settled in. (And what's the irony of me defending Obama and Jodi criticizing him? Never thought I'd see that day!)
Personally, I wish Obama hadn't chosen a "celebrity minister" for the inauguration. I'm highly distrustful of TV preachers - maybe it's childhood trauma of growing up near Charlotte in the Jim and Tammy Faye Bakker days. But I'd rather see that honor go to an anonymous minister who does good things under the radar. I'm sure there are many ministers who fit that bill right there in Washington, D.C.
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Guests
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Joined: 01 October 2003
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| Posted: 22 December 2008 at 1:07pm | IP Logged | 8
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Michael -
I don't believe anyone is implying that AIDS is a "gay disease". I certainly am not. From my perspective, AIDS is everyone's problem and all should be involved at some level in care, cure and compassion.
During my training to be a CNA (certified nursing assistant) we learned a lot about caring for patients dying of STDs, especially AIDS. The person who taught the course on AIDS was a gay man. His approach towards the topic was both factual and refreshing. He brought some insightful and valuable information to our class. We all learned that AIDS spreads through needle (drug) sharing and sexual promiscuity. In essence, the disease is transferred through the exchange of infected bodily fluids. These things I already knew. He also told us that AIDS is prevalent among non-monogamous and promiscuous bisexual and homosexual males. What was new to me, is that in WA state, more and more married men are stepping out on their wives for multiple trysts with men and boys. As a result, many of these men are becoming HIV positive and succumbing to the ravages of AIDS. Or if they themselves do not show symptoms, many of those they have sexual contact with do, especially their wives.
I share all of this because I am convinced that anyone dying of AIDS would appreciate compassionate care from anyone regardless of their sexual orientation or religion. And this would include Christians and evangelicals like the Warrens.
My wife and I lived in North Portland, Oregon in the mid to late '90's. In our apartment we had a friend who was a promiscuous gay man. Because of a series of painful situations, he attempted to commit suicide by jumping through the fourth story window. We visited him in the hospital. He shared with us how he grew up in a "Christian" home where his parents did not love him and had rejected him. I remember embracing this man and him weeping in my arms because a "Christian" simply cared about him. He later moved out of our area, and eventually died of AIDS. We were deeply saddened when he left, and when he passed.
Any person is free to be gay, lesbian, bisexual or transgender. But, if that lifestyle leads to sexual promiscuity and succumbing to AIDS, I would sincerely hope that the dying person would be open to care and compassion from Christians.
Edited by Dan Walsh on 22 December 2008 at 1:09pm
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Donald Miller
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Joined: 03 February 2005
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| Posted: 22 December 2008 at 1:19pm | IP Logged | 9
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Dan,
While his work helping AIDS victims is noble. It in no way negates his stance on Homosexuality in general and his stance on Gay Marriage in particular. I am sure he has raised money for a great many other worthy causes as well. It still does not negate the hate inherent in his words. Like I said, I understand the need to try and unify all...I just wish he had chosen someone else.
Don
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Guests
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| Posted: 22 December 2008 at 1:22pm | IP Logged | 10
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It still does not negate the hate inherent in his words.
Don -
Please elaborate. What do you mean by "hate" ? Or what has Warren said specifically that, in your mind (or any gay person's mind) connotates hate? I don't follow Warren, so I'm really curious about this.
Thanks ! :-)
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Juan Jose Colin Arciniega
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Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 6413
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| Posted: 22 December 2008 at 1:23pm | IP Logged | 11
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Wow...welcome to our group Peter!!!
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Donald Miller
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Location: United States
Posts: 3597
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| Posted: 22 December 2008 at 1:27pm | IP Logged | 12
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Dan Said:
But, if that lifestyle leads to sexual promiscuity and succumbing to AIDS.
This phrase gets tossed around a lot in the media..."Gay Lifestyle" seems to make a lot of assumptions about people. I assure you I have my share of friends that are living the "straight lifestyle" that have led to drug addiction and disease as well. I would prefer that we call it like it is. The lifestyle we are referring to is the irresponsible lifestyle, in which one denies that there could be any consequences for one's actions, gay or straight.
Don
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Topic Closed)
