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Steve D Swanson Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 04 May 2008 Location: Canada Posts: 1374
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| Posted: 21 December 2008 at 3:55am | IP Logged | 1
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This is an odd question but over the last few weeks I've read about 3 terrible books (along with 5 or 6 great books) and I'm not sure how I feel about the fact they got published. They weren't good enough (bad sentences, bad paragraphs, bad plotting, bad writing) to be published and yet they were. Part of me takes heart at that because if something that bad got published it means there has to be a place for my novel somewhere. Another part was just distressed that the authors had gotten away with it and somehow played the system or knew somebody (or both) and managed to con a publishing company into publishing their book.
I know I seem a little harsh (which is why I'm not going to name the names of the authors or the books) but I read a lot and these books were actively bad. I can understand mediocrity, I can understand the author's reach exceeding their grasp, I can see a myriad of different ways that books can fail and still be published but bad everything just left me incredulous.
Normally I would not have finished the books but they were new books in genres that are becoming popular (cozy mystery, urban fantasy, historical mystery) and I wanted to do some research as to what readers are buying. Not that these are best sellers but they've done alright and are all going to have sequels. I don't know why it frustrates me so much, almost like I no longer know what my writing goal is anymore. It's always been to keep improving until such time as I can sell my work on a consistent basis (whether it becomes popular or not is another challenge that comes after that one) but then I see books like these and believe I am a better writer and yet I haven't reached that level.
I know there's a pretty substantial networking component to publishing and a lot of it comes down to who you know, but to see it made obvious just bums me out.
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Steve D Swanson Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 04 May 2008 Location: Canada Posts: 1374
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| Posted: 21 December 2008 at 4:03am | IP Logged | 2
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As to the Warren subject; in making him part of the inaugauration ceremony I think it can be perceived that Obama is if not advocating his position, normalizing that position and I do find that dangerous.
Obama could have a meeting with Rev. Warren and talk about this issue and I wouldn't mind that one bit, talking and keeping the channels of communication open are vital if minds are to be changed. However, that would not mean that President Obama was advocating Warren's position, all it would mean was that he was willing to listen, debate and agree to disagree. I would applaud Obama for that, but it is a reward and a validation to allow Rev. Warren to be part of the celebration ceremonies and I think that is an entirely different thing.
I believe in letting everyone have their say and I believe that when that happens the correct side usually wins (people are brighter than they're often given credit for but when all we see are the ignorant extremes on the news we tend to discredit the other side's intelligence).
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Peter Svensson Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 30 January 2005 Location: United States Posts: 1470
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| Posted: 21 December 2008 at 5:09am | IP Logged | 3
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Marc, I'm as gay as they come.
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Tom French Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 07 January 2005 Location: United States Posts: 4154
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| Posted: 21 December 2008 at 6:26am | IP Logged | 4
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My partner Eric really lost his temper over the Warren choice, claiming that he'd lost faith in Obama (he even took the Obama sign down from the lawn!)
I took the position that the man's trying to unite a very disparate America. Sometimes that means making choices that I may not agree with, so I'm resisting the urge to condemn Obama because of Warren, the same way I've resisted the urge to punch Warren in the snoot.
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Jodi Moisan Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 19 February 2008 Location: United States Posts: 6808
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| Posted: 21 December 2008 at 8:48am | IP Logged | 5
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Steve I know what you are talking about with some bad books being published and how on earth did they get published. I do think sometimes it's as much who you know, as it is, what you know. I know sometimes it's even just random luck. I had heard one time, luck being described as "preparation meeting opportunity" and I completely agree with it.
My advice is, keep honing your skill as a writer, never ever give up and keep submitting your work. If you feel any one of your writings is exceptional, submit it, ask for advice on what they are looking for if it doesn't get accepted. Wait a while and re-submit it, at a different time they may find it print worthy. Try writing short stories for magazines and submit those. If they get published, a ton of people will have seen your work and name and may contact you for additional work. Even if it's a magazine you don't read, look at a womans magazine as a writers challenge.
Contact the local newspaper and ask if they could do a story about yourself, maybe the angle being struggling writer following his dreams and to never give up. One time when I owned my toy store a lady came in and saw one of my bears and asked about it, I explained that I had made it. She was a reporter for our local paper and asked a month later if she could do an article about my work.
It got picked up by the AP wire service and the magazine Ladies Home Journal contacted me and asked if I would mind them interviewing me for an article. I freaked out and said no. But the moral of that story is, you never know who will be looking at your work if it does get printed in a newspaper or magazine. And a magazine may be easier to get your work in.
Steve just NEVER give up, keep writing and never be afraid to do self promotion. And ask someone on here that has had a book published , like Bruce, for advice. I would also find comfort knowing that J.K. Rowlings got rejection letters before her work went on and got published.
Edited by Jodi Moisan on 21 December 2008 at 8:51am
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Al Cook Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 21 December 2004 Posts: 12734
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| Posted: 21 December 2008 at 8:53am | IP Logged | 6
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Excellent advice, Jodi.
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Joakim Jahlmar Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 10 October 2005 Location: Sweden Posts: 6080
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| Posted: 21 December 2008 at 9:38am | IP Logged | 7
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Jodi wrote: ”But he was involved in a campaign of hate, the amount of money they spent to get this passed boggles my mind, I think if they are truely religious, that money could have been used to fight hunger or another worthy cause. That would seem like a more godly thing to do.”
Isn’t that the almost the crowning sadness here? Not only do these people want to deny certain individuals their rights in a ”free” society, they are prepared to use up oodles of money that presumably could have done the world much more good if diverted into the right places. And THAT’s supposed to be the good guys?
And allow me to echo both Jodi and Al on Dan being a really good egg. The first sign being that he’s always open to discuss issues, in a serious and civil manner. We might not always agree, that’s life, but so far I think the places where we don’t are places where we can agree to disagree without the world falling apart at the seams. :)
Jodi also wrote: ”I do love a challenge and I though Jack of Hearts was going to be the hardest pony ever , Ha! :0)”
You mean mine’s topping Jack of Hearts difficulty wise??? Gosh! I’d never have thought that. Almost getting a guilty feeling over here. (And needless getting all the more giddy to see how much you’ll blow my mind!)
Al wrote: ”Wait wait wait. I'm supposed to be controlling that urge?
No wonder my wife is always so mad.”
Heathen! ;)
Steve wrote: ”Part of me takes heart at that because if something that bad got published it means there has to be a place for my novel somewhere.”
Well, alas, I wouldn’t say that’s a certainty. There are too many factors involved in publishing to safely argue that anything good is destined to published or that anything truly bad won’t be. Too much is down to who’s sitting at which chair, believing in what, and also what happens to be in vogue at any given time. I can still remember the time I got a short story published in the top literature magazine/journal in Sweden at that time. Certainly it made me elated to be sure, but the fact that they choose the one short story out of two that I’d sent in, left me we a bit of a bitter aftertaste, since when I’d written it, I’d done so partly to try a certain style in vogue at the time, and had said to myself once done, that if they’d ever publish a piece of mine this would be it. And lo and behold, they did. And I wouldn’t say that the piece (which I’m proud of, don’t get me wrong) is necessarily better than the one that didn’t make it.
Another sign of the same somewhat chance oriented nature of the game, would be the times I got rejection slips from different places but regarding the same text(s), where one editor would complain that the story was or had too much X and the other saying that it was or had too little X.
Or the fact that every time a big break comes for any given category, the publishers will scour the country side for similar stuff to ride the commercial waves. Just consider the boom of Da Vinci Code type books after the Da Vinci Code. Some people who’d previously been rejection were then sought out because suddenly their ”unpublishable” novel were now a possible cash cow.
Peter wrote: ”Marc, I'm as gay as they come.”
I’m kind of slightly amused that Marc had missed that. My first reaction when he asked was basically, ”Hasn’t Peter said that outright here and there every once in while, and implied it even more oftenly?” Or maybe this straight man is developing a good gaydar from hanging out in here. ;)
Jodi wrote: ”I would also find comfort knowing that J.K. Rowlings got rejection letters before her work went on and got published.”
Even world famous Swedish children's author Astrid Lindgren got rejected in the beginning. It’s quite famous that one of the publishing houses over here who first got their hands on Pippi, rejected it... bet that they’ve regretted that decision a couple of times in the decades that’s followed.
And for my own part, I’ve saved all my rejections slips and acceptances alike. Should I ever hit be lucky enough to the jack pot rwiting/publishing wise, that’ll be a good way to keep me anchored and remember my roots with some humility.
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Marc Baptiste Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 17 June 2004 Location: United States Posts: 3633
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| Posted: 21 December 2008 at 9:51am | IP Logged | 8
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Peter,
Awesome. Welcome to the club. You're awfully cute.
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Peter Svensson Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 30 January 2005 Location: United States Posts: 1470
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| Posted: 21 December 2008 at 3:47pm | IP Logged | 9
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Thanks. I'm used to people not picking up on my being gay. I apparently operate under the gaydar.
There was a gay at a LARP I used to attend that I totally crushed on. But one day I heard him talk about his girlfriend and assumed that it wasn't meant to be. Until one of his friends told me that he was bi, and thus I made my moves on him. Freaking him out as he had been crushing on me but had assumed I was straight. Funny how those things work.
But then there are the folks who figure it out from being next to me for less than a minute. And then there are those who refuse to believe it until I start making out with someone right in front of them.
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Tom French Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 07 January 2005 Location: United States Posts: 4154
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| Posted: 22 December 2008 at 6:08am | IP Logged | 10
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Thanks. I'm used to people not picking up on my being gay. I apparently operate under the gaydar.
Sounds to me like you're a normal person who hasn't adopted any gay mannerisms (interesting pun in that word, don't you think?). Why on Earth WOULD people pick up you were gay, unless you "acted" gay?
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Michael Penn Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 12 April 2006 Location: United States Posts: 13149
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| Posted: 22 December 2008 at 6:34am | IP Logged | 11
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I had a very good friend in college who only years later came out, and everyone who knew him was just jaw-dropped at the revelation. And it's not that he was the full 180 degrees against the most commonly presumed stereotypes of gay men. He was an extremely funny 5'2" Mexican-American who drank more alcohol than five six footers combined and who enjoyed a good laugh more than anyone I've ever met, and he was nothing more or less than one of the guys.
I'm very happy to say that even after coming out, he remained that. I don't merely mean that he did not suddenly adopting outward "mannerisms," as Tom said, and he didn't! -- but that he was still fully accepted by his friends, a bunch of rowdy former frat boys.
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Joakim Jahlmar Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 10 October 2005 Location: Sweden Posts: 6080
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| Posted: 22 December 2008 at 8:30am | IP Logged | 12
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Tom wrote: "Sounds to me like you're a normal person who hasn't adopted any gay
mannerisms (interesting pun in that word, don't you think?). Why on
Earth WOULD people pick up you were gay, unless you 'acted' gay?"
Mostly, I don't even pick up on the ones "acting" gay, simply because there's enough people around acting like it without being it for it to be unsure that way as well. Besides, I for one normally don't get to hung up on people's sexuality unless it happens to be the topic of discussion or I want the person (well, if the person happens to want me for some odd reason, it might be an issue as well of course). Outside of that, I don't see why their sexuality really matters one iota to me. Their personality on the other hand...
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