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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133949
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| Posted: 24 June 2008 at 2:06pm | IP Logged | 1
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For the record, it's "homophobes"....
•••
Once or twice a decade I put forth a small plea for a new word. This one
doesn't work. The "homo" in "homosexual" means "the same", as in
"homogeneous", not "man" as in homo sapiens, so "homophobe" would
mean "fear of things that are the same". Unbridled terror at the sight of
bookends, for instance.
There should be a word that is both more specific, and more expressive of
the stupidity of the "fear".
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Tom French
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 07 January 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 4154
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| Posted: 24 June 2008 at 2:32pm | IP Logged | 2
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There should be a word that is both more specific, and more expressive of the stupidity of the "fear".
That's a very valid point -- and one I'd given no thought until you mentioned it. You can see the obvious genesis of the word as it is used, but you're correct in its exacting definition. "Queer-phobe" would suffer somewhat of the same problem -- a fear of things unusual. "Fag-phobe" no better.
I'm the lyricist here. Let's see if I can get my love of phenomes on this thing.
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Kevin Hagerman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 15 April 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 18172
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| Posted: 24 June 2008 at 3:26pm | IP Logged | 3
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Weiner-fearer
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Michael Roberts
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 14869
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| Posted: 24 June 2008 at 3:37pm | IP Logged | 4
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People with a genuine fear of hot dogs would be wrongly lumped in with gay bashers.
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Tom French
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 07 January 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 4154
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| Posted: 24 June 2008 at 3:59pm | IP Logged | 5
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I'm only afraid of what's IN hot dogs! I bet there's some wrong lumps...
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Tom French
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 07 January 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 4154
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| Posted: 24 June 2008 at 4:02pm | IP Logged | 6
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An "androphile" is a lover of men. Perhaps "andro-phobe"?
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Joakim Jahlmar
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 10 October 2005
Location: Sweden
Posts: 6080
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| Posted: 25 June 2008 at 4:57am | IP Logged | 7
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Tom wrote:
"For the record, it's 'homophobes,' but I'll let it go this time!"
Thanks, my spelling didn't look quite right when I typed it. It looked sort of silly, but then I figured they're silly people anyway, so... ;)
More Tom:
"Didn't you know, the pedophile card is a favorite to play against the gays? I say it again and again -- I'm attracted to MEN, not boys."
O I don't doubt you for a minute (on either account) there Tom. I'm just wondering how these sad individuals can come to such a conclusion without following it to its logical end, i.e. that us heterosexuals by default should be attracted to youngsters of the opposite sex. And by that kind of logic, heterosexual women should be disqualified from leading boy scout groups and hetersexual men should be disqualified from leading girl scout groups. It's sad, sad, sad. I'm the first one to advocate that we should go after the pedophiles, but heck, then I'd prefer it if that was what was being done, rather than going after everything and a kitchen sink (and probably slipping a few of the real predators inbetween while hunting those witches around). *sigh* Sad.
Tom also wrote:
"Actually, I find most heteros to be a bit egotistical about that. What on earth makes you think you're so hot that the gays WOULD be checking you out?"
My point exactly. The hubris involved in that line of reasoning is just absurd (especially when one considers how some of those homophobes actually look). Now, I for one am flattered when anyone finds me attractive. Doesn't mean I like unwanted advances beyond that point, but heck, there I certainly don't discriminate against the sex of the person, but rather behaviour and my own attractions. I believe I mentioned it before (in a thread a while back where you were also present, Tom), that I had an experience when I was younger and hanging out with a bunch of gay people having a lot of fun. Now at one party, this guy I hadn't met before tried to quite forcibly french kiss me when I was leaving, and I was quite unnerved by it. Why? Certainly not because he was gay, but rather because I was not attracted to him, had no desire whatsoever to be kissed by him, and the forcibly part made me feel uncomfortable for sure. Now, if he'd been a woman matching any or all of those criteria I don't think my reaction would have been any different. And it certainly hasn't made me think any less of gay people as a group.
Tom (apropos of the "homophobe" word debate):
"I'm only afraid of what's IN hot dogs! I bet there's some wrong lumps... "
Now, that just sounds dirty, Tom. ;)
And Kevin beat me to the new name kind of.... maybe if we just use penis-phobia (penis does look as if it's got its roots in a Greek word at the very least)... but that would of course not include lesbians. And any men fearing lesbians would that notwithstanding probably not be vagina-phobes anyway, so... back to the drawing board, I guess.
Tom again:
"An 'androphile' is a lover of men. Perhaps 'andro-phobe'?"
Still feels a bit to general. I guess there are many battered women who could be said to suffer from andro-phobia without necessarily being opposed to homosexuals. Just my penny. But it certainly is problematic to find a term that's both short and catchy enough and at the same time accurate enough.
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Kevin Hagerman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 15 April 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 18172
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| Posted: 25 June 2008 at 5:17am | IP Logged | 8
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Who here thinks most homophobes* are closeted/conflicted homosexuals themselves? There seems to be a certain evolutionary advantage, if one has those tendencies, to be strongly in denial of them. Of course, this raises the question of how homosexual tendencies originate. I think it's prevalent in humans and other species because sex pushes more buttons than just procreation. We mate all year round, rather than in seasons, for example, because sex also increases the pair bond between male and female (or male and male or female and female).
*until "weiner-fearer, non-food variant" catches on, I shall use the established nomenclature
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Joakim Jahlmar
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 10 October 2005
Location: Sweden
Posts: 6080
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| Posted: 25 June 2008 at 5:34am | IP Logged | 9
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I don't know, Kevin, but I think there's certainly something to it. I also think that Kinsey was on to something with his sliding scales, that issue is not always as simple as a positive or negative, black or white, and that since sex especially with our species has developed so far from just procreation that our sexuality isn't in any way bound by it any more. And perhaps that frightening scary sliding scale has something even more to do with some of those "weiner-fearers, non-food variant," but who knows.
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Tom French
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 07 January 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 4154
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| Posted: 25 June 2008 at 5:36am | IP Logged | 10
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Kevin -- I wonder if dominance-influenced behavior qualifies? A lot of straight guys participate in dominance games (ie: wrestling, horseing around, football) where the pecking order is established.
I watch my dog with other dogs at the dog park. They wrestle and growl and ultimately "hump" each other to establish who's who. They're not having sex, but they ARE behaving sexually. It wouldn't surprise me -- as humans are animals -- that they engage in the same behavior, but then are confused about what that "means."
There's nothing wrong with exploration, either -- hell, I've been with women -- but again, men are afraid of labels and all the connotations that brings with it.
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Kevin Hagerman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 15 April 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 18172
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| Posted: 25 June 2008 at 5:40am | IP Logged | 11
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I've often thought it was behind the 60's bigotry toward long hair. All those cliched "Is that a him or a her?" and "Come here and give us a kiss, little darlin'" movie scenes seemed to touch a nerve that long hair was A Bad Thing to rednecks because they'd end up falling in love with hippie men.
(Those were just movies, of course. I'm too young to know how accurate such scenes could be.)
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Kevin Hagerman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 15 April 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 18172
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| Posted: 25 June 2008 at 5:41am | IP Logged | 12
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This is the bestest gay wedding thread ever!
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Topic Closed)
