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Larry Morris
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Posted: 25 June 2008 at 11:06am | IP Logged | 1  


 QUOTE:

How good / important / much material do those AA stories involve?
 

It's in those stories that Hank first mutates from his original human form into the ape like Beast.
 
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Victor Rodgers
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Posted: 25 June 2008 at 12:59pm | IP Logged | 2  

Its just hilarious that Harras sided with the Image boys and got rid of Claremont the guy who built the book up. Then Lee leaves them high and dry.
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Martin Redmond
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Posted: 25 June 2008 at 2:06pm | IP Logged | 3  

Just like he's done with every single project of his since.
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Joakim Jahlmar
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Posted: 25 June 2008 at 3:14pm | IP Logged | 4  

Greg wrote:
"Claremont says he wanted to go in new directions with the book, and that Jim Lee wanted to do stories with things that he loved baout the comic in the first place, i.e. Magneto, The Savage Land, The Sentinels,etc. Claremont felt he had covered that ground too many times, and the editors took Lee's side as the books sales had increased again under his art."

It would seem an excellent case to apply what JB is usually saying about fans needing to move along when they "need" changes and can no longer handle certain genre conventions. Haven't read the interview with Claremont (though that book is on my evergrowing list of interesting stuff), but I can't say that it seems to have been such a bad idea for Claremont to move along at that point. Both in terms of the franchise and in terms of his own creativity. One would wish editors would go for similar decisions at Marvel today, rather than coming up with the next "divine" (please note dripping sarcasm) event to tear the entire MU apart and reassemble it into yet another dung heap.
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Larry Morris
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Posted: 25 June 2008 at 3:40pm | IP Logged | 5  

I just reread the interviews with both Harras and Claremont in Comic Creators on the X Men.  It's wasn't so much Harras taking Lee's side because he was the hot artist as it was they agreed on what the books should be.  Read to me, at least in the Harras interview, that  it was more Lee and him seeing eye to eye rather than him choosing Lee.

Harras thought that Xavier, Scott and Jean were the core of the X Men, intrinsic to the X Men.  He also mentioned not thinking that aliens or magical characters really worked in the X Men.  The book didn't mention it, but I've read it several times.  Harras wanted Magneto to be a villain. 

Reads to me like Harras wanted to use the more classic characters and concepts.  Claremont wanted to do new stuff.  He had done the old stuff and wanted to do new stuff.  Truthfully, he always did a lot of that.  He was always shaking up the team roster.

Like I said earlier, he planned on doing some things that I would have really disliked.  I'm not going to pretend to be that sorry that he left, and he started writing X Men a couple years after I started reading.
I grew up reading his X Men.  That doesn't mean I like
everything he does. 
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Victor Rodgers
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Posted: 25 June 2008 at 3:51pm | IP Logged | 6  

At this point I have faith in him to deliver in the long run. Everytime I've thought he has lost it in these Essential Volumes, he turns around and knocks it out of the park.

Also I love it when the X-Men fight demons and aliens. Thats not to say you do not need the evil mutants or sentinels. But you need a healthy balance of both.

Its kinda like what somebody said about Thor. You can have them in space and fighting demons. But you always have to bring them back to earth to get beat up by the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants.

Since I started reading comics bback in 1992. Ive made attempts to follow the X books. I've enjoyed some but never as much as Avengers and FF.

After I read the first two Essential X-Men and loved them to death. I wondered what the difference was. I mean besides the talent of the creators obviously. But I think it is that the books focused too much on the mutant rights stuff. Instead of them having all kinds of adventures like all the best runs had.

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Larry Morris
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Posted: 25 June 2008 at 4:28pm | IP Logged | 7  

My impression was that Harras was referring more to ongoing cast members in the books.  Regardless, I'm sort of like him in it not being my preference for the books.

Magic and outer space are not what I think of when I think X Men.  However, I'm not against it's periodic use.  For me, it's more about the characters anyway.
Get them right and I'll deal with the setting.

The first Brood story is set away from earth and I remember it very fondly for what I think are some great Cyclops moments.  The conclusion to the Dark Phoenix Saga was set on the moon with the X Men fighting aliens. 
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Kevin Hagerman
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Posted: 25 June 2008 at 4:37pm | IP Logged | 8  

It seems to me the X-Men should be based on Earth, and the space/cosmic stuff should be left to Thor or the FF.

Having said that, from the Z'Nox to the Sentinels operating from a satellite to fighting the Imperial Guard, to the Dark Phoenix Saga, to The Brood - all that stuff completely works for me, een though I guess it shouldn't have.

Didn't really like it when they fought the Skrulls, but Deathbird was a part of that so it wasn't totally left field.

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Victor Rodgers
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Posted: 25 June 2008 at 4:46pm | IP Logged | 9  

Larry I always took the roster changes as a means to keep the team fresh. Just like you cycle out Cap, Thor and Iron Man every once in awhile. That way they come back and things are recharged. I think the X-Men are the same.

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Chris Durnell
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Posted: 25 June 2008 at 7:02pm | IP Logged | 10  

I give Claremont strong points for writing so many X-Men issues and keeping the series popular.  When it was announced he was leaving in the early '90s, it was kind of sad because he had been on it for so long, but I wasn't sorry to see him go.  The last several years of the title (anything after the lame Inferno crossover) was simply awful except for the last few Jim Lee issues.  Although the "Australia team" era before Inferno had some good stories (the original Genosha story, the Brood story, and the addition of the Reavers as a villain group) it was just silly with them being "dead," no real supporting cast or anything else to ground them with the "normal" world, and them not being able to be photographed.

Furthermore, the team dynamics simply were not good for many years - the team was just bland.  There were no good rivalries or issues between members of the team, I found the identical personalities of the female members boring, and I have never understood why Psylocke or Longshot was on the team.  For both of them it was like *poof* they're X-Men now.

Previous to this era, Claremont had erred too much in making the world just too dark and hateful against mutants.  I'm a believer that some amount of anti-mutant hysteria is good for the comic, but the tension should come from what might happen in the future, not the dark clouds obviously looming overhead.

I also personally never liked the Shi'ar, but can accept a popular element that makes the book enjoyable for others.  I just think that space opera is taking the X-Men far too much away from their "specialty" and what distinguishes them from other teams.

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Gregg Halecki
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Posted: 25 June 2008 at 7:39pm | IP Logged | 11  

It almost seems like a reversal of what you would expect, in regards to the CC/Lee split. This is of course bases solt on facts as presented on this thread, as I haven't read any of the interviews myself.

Lee, who is oft charachterized as part of the "kewl" generation known for style over substance and for gimmics wanted what I would consider to be TRADITIONAL X-Men staples as far as team composition and upcoming storylines. CC, the proverbial "old master" wanted to shake things up and make a final product that would not resemble the X-Men that up until then we had known and loved.

I have gotten to be more of a fan of Jim Lee over the last few years, MUCH more than when he was at his peak of popularity when I disliked him greatly. Hearing this story makes me think I may have been misjudging him all along in the beginning.
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Victor Rodgers
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Posted: 25 June 2008 at 7:56pm | IP Logged | 12  

Previous to this era, Claremont had erred too much in making the world just too dark and hateful against mutants.  I'm a believer that some amount of anti-mutant hysteria is good for the comic, but the tension should come from what might happen in the future, not the dark clouds obviously looming overhead.

****

One thing I noticed in the last two volumes is the anti mutant hysteria is more balanced. here are just as many humans who accept mutants as their are bigots.

Personally I love the Australian team (Except for Dazzler as I mentioned earlier.) I really like Longshot, both visually and as a character. Though Psylocke bugs me a little. She seems a bit too sadistic/cold hearted to be on the team.

Havok is one of my all time favorites. Plus you have your main stays of Collosus, Storm, Rogue and Wolverine.

I say all this knowing the original team had a book. Not to mention Kitty and Nightcrawler being in Excaliber. Though I do think they were burnt out.

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