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Joe Hollon
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 08 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 13699
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| Posted: 16 May 2008 at 6:37am | IP Logged | 1
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The whole circle in the background isn't even there! Obviously an original piece of art. No idea what you guys are complaining about.
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Donald Miller
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 03 February 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 3601
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| Posted: 16 May 2008 at 6:37am | IP Logged | 2
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OK I have looked at the evidence..twice..I don't think there is any misunderstanding taking place here. This seller is misrepresenting the art as being done by Ray.
I did notice that there is difference on some of the listings...Some have a Ray Kryssing signature. Do you think that these pieces may be actual works by Ray as opposed to a ripped off tracing.
This infuriates me as I truly enjoy inking the pencils that I have been able to get scans of...It is simply not that hard to right down the truth...Either credit the original artist and say it was inked by Ray or if ray actually drew a near identical copy credit the original artist with an After...
Don
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James Woodcock
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 September 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 7789
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| Posted: 16 May 2008 at 6:40am | IP Logged | 3
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Surely people prepared to buy those pictures would look at them and say 'Hey, Bob Layton drew that' and move on.
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Joe Hollon
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 08 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 13699
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| Posted: 16 May 2008 at 6:57am | IP Logged | 4
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Apparently not. He's getting bids.
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Jay Schimel
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 December 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 113
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| Posted: 16 May 2008 at 7:27am | IP Logged | 5
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I actually just got a Ray Kryssing Harley Quinn off of ebay for a friend of mine cause it's her favorite character. Now that I have read all of your posts I agree with those blasting him. If it wasn't for his signature on it you would swear it was done by Terry Dodson. And no credit to Dodson at all of course. Nice copy though. Last thing I'll buy from him however because to me it's just not right.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133334
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| Posted: 16 May 2008 at 8:04am | IP Logged | 6
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There was some debate a while back over swiping, a whether and artist who
copies from another owes some kind of payment to the original artist. What
we're seeing here goes far beyond swiping, tho. Comparing the two Iron
Man shot at the end of the previous page, they are as nearly identical as they
could be without one actually being a photocopy of the other. In other
words, this is tracing. Not just looking at someone else's drawing and
copying it freehand (swiping) but using something like a lightbox or an
Artograph to precisely duplicate the picture.
Which seems to cross the line into theft.
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Joe Martino
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 736
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| Posted: 16 May 2008 at 8:21am | IP Logged | 7
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I bought a drawing by Al Bigley that I knew JB didn't draw but Al inked. I knew it going in that it was an inking over a lightbox. I wanted it anyway. It doesn't have JB's signature but it is a nice piece. I don't try to pull it off as a JB original. I also bought this years ago before I knew better.
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Martin Redmond
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 June 2006
Posts: 3882
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| Posted: 16 May 2008 at 8:31am | IP Logged | 8
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That's pretty bad, his inking doesn't exactly justify the steal either. Still, he must make like a 100$ a month off it. It's not like it's big money.
Edited by Martin Redmond on 16 May 2008 at 8:33am
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Donald Miller
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 03 February 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 3601
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| Posted: 16 May 2008 at 8:39am | IP Logged | 9
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What are some suggestions from the board, or even our esteemed host on the right way to go about something like this?
If I were an inker, and wanted to sell my inks over copies of someones pencils...how to do? What is an ethical way to represent myself.
I would think that finished commission pieces would be right out...as they are complete works in and of themselves...
Don
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 16 May 2008 at 8:48am | IP Logged | 10
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If I were an inker, and wanted to sell my inks over copies of someones
pencils...how to do? What is an ethical way to represent myself.
••
Not doing it at all is the only way to be truly ethical. Beyond that, some
sort of payment to the original artist would be a step in the right
direction. Mike Carlin initiated a policy of paying the original artist for
the design when covers were done based on earlier works. And those
were just homages, not line for line tracings.
Here's the basic problem: when crafting a comicbook page, or pinup,
only the penciler is actually creating an original (we hope!) piece of art.
What the inker is doing, however elaborate his/her work might be, is
embellishing upon that original. This is a necessary, and in some cases
even vital part of the processes. Most inkers do fine work, and nothing
should take away from their contribution. But, to invoke the oft-used
writer's phrase, they are not the ones who "face the blank page".
What's happening here, is that Kryssing is stealing -- I can't think of
another word -- not only the penciler's work and style, but the inker's
work and style. There is no "blank page" at all -- just tracing. Even the
most incompetent inkers do more than that!
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Joe Hollon
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 08 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 13699
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| Posted: 16 May 2008 at 9:19am | IP Logged | 11
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At the very least, to have any shred of ethical decency, he would have to advertise it as an inked recreation of another artists work. He would have to make it clear who the original artist was and present that all he is selling is a copy of someone else's work. If that's what he was doing I would just think, "Why would these people pay for that?" But since he's passing a lot of these off as original creations (by not crediting anyone else) he is stealing.
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Donald Miller
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 03 February 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 3601
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| Posted: 16 May 2008 at 9:32am | IP Logged | 12
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Thanks for the response.
I figured as much. I am an ok non professional inker...I would never have dreamed of trying to sell my inks (good or bad is not the issue here) of someone else's pencils for exactly that reason.
What he is doing here is really even worse, as he gives no credit to any other artists.
Implying by default that the work is his own.
In fact the only way I could imagine this working would be I commission a pencilled piece from JB...Then i commission Inks from other artists over the same pencils...that's possible right...but as the commissioner that would be my right...as an inker, I don't see how you could ethically do it unless to send a portion to the original artist. a conundrum.
There is no puzzle here to solve though...Ray is blatantly stealing these works and selling them as his own...shameful, moreso than the aforementioned swipes.
Don
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Topic Closed)
