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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133334
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| Posted: 15 May 2008 at 9:30am | IP Logged | 1
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Didn't Chris Rock's character in the 'Jay And Silent Bob Strike Back' movie
make a comment about inkers being nothing more than tracers?
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It was in Chasing Amy, some kid said it to Jason Lee, and Kevin Smith
kinda ruined inkers forever with that stupid line. Now every time I put a
pen to something or I try and explain what inkers do to civilians I get
them quoting that.
••
There are different kinds of inkers. Terry Austin has long defined himself
as a "tracer". In his case, it means utmost fidelity to the pencils.
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Joel Biske
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 18 January 2007
Location: United States
Posts: 761
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| Posted: 15 May 2008 at 9:35am | IP Logged | 2
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There's a big difference between copying (... ahem "recreating") a printed page and.... stealing a commission. There are a lot of artists, pros even recreating stuff now, but commissions are private and usually very personal pieces never intended for public "consumption."
I find it completely unethical to "recreate" a private commission, and to do it without even having the decency to credit the original artists.... Wow...
I ink LOTS of stuff on bluelines... mostly for my own enjoyment, with the occasional pipe dream of actually using them as an inking portfolio, but I wouldn't dream of misrepresenting them as anything other than what they are... me playing... I wouldn't sell one of them if you asked... in fact, I ink one, scan it, and print a new blueline in the reverse... Hell, I still screw up more than I like, so I've got LOTS of half finished ones...
Plus... I STILL don't get why you'd want someone other than the original creator to do a recreation.... I've seen some people do some VERY nice copies, but why you'd pay much for one is beyond me... even if the creator has passed away... that's just me tho....
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Dave Aikins
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 31 July 2007
Location: United States
Posts: 2110
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| Posted: 15 May 2008 at 9:39am | IP Logged | 3
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"So basically, the balls on Dave's court?"
Sam- If it was a commission that I really felt strongly about (or one that I paid a ton for), I would do more to stop this then just venting on a forum.
I agree that there's no need to be harsh, but I do feel that calling him a "jerk" is a valid form of "name-calling",. After all, it's a small price to pay for the $25 he's making off of my commission.
and all of you who disagree are jerks...
and stoopid...
(alright, so maybe name-calling isn't needed and will get me sucker-punched. It was a tough call, and in a moment of frustration I went with name calling. Oh well.)
anyway, you can possibly defend the work, but you can't defend the lack of crediting the source. If that's not a jerky thing to do, I don't know what is.
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Joel Biske
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 18 January 2007
Location: United States
Posts: 761
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| Posted: 15 May 2008 at 9:39am | IP Logged | 4
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There are different kinds of inkers. Terry Austin has long defined himself
as a "tracer". In his case, it means utmost fidelity to the pencils.
----
I've always found it funny that Terry defines himself that way.... I understand (and agree with!!) JB's above interpretation of that statement, but its funny because Terry still has one of the most distinctive styles in the business....
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JT Molloy
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 February 2008
Posts: 2092
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| Posted: 15 May 2008 at 12:08pm | IP Logged | 5
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There are different kinds of inkers. Terry Austin has long defined himself
as a "tracer". In his case, it means utmost fidelity to the pencils.
--
Which is indeed a good thing if the penciler is talented, but that scene from that movie popularized that term in a derogatory manner and it's hard to explain for instance why Klaus Jansen was almost as important on Daredevil as Frank Miller. Or that inkers have to be competent artists to be able to complete a page off rough breakdowns.
I dunno, ever since that movie it just reads to me like another one of those fanboy buzzwords.
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Glenn Brown
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 3095
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| Posted: 15 May 2008 at 12:38pm | IP Logged | 6
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I've alerted a couple of the artists whom I know whose work Kryssing has lifted/traced/whatever term you prefer. One has already sent Kryssing a strongly worded email detailing his contempt for Kryssing's practices. These are, or were, "A"- list artists, who will attract attention and support if they speak out about the situation, so it will be interesting to see what progresses from here.
Edited by Glenn Brown on 15 May 2008 at 3:39pm
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Pascal LISE
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 29 July 2006
Location: France
Posts: 1111
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| Posted: 15 May 2008 at 1:16pm | IP Logged | 7
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As I have noted before, it's not my permission that's needed. It's the
permission of the person who paid for the commission and, where
applicable, the copyright holder(s).
Just to clarify for foreign members like myself :
What JB said is probably true in front of the US law but it might be
different in other countries. In France, the ownership always
belongs to the artist, the buyer only pay to possess the original or the
right for the reproduction of the art under the term of the contract.
I can buy from JB the right to print and sell 200 posters of his art but if I
want to print another 50 copies, I'll have to buy the right for 50 copies
(or for any other use).
That is the law but then life happens !
Edited by Pascal LISE on 15 May 2008 at 1:17pm
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Mike O'Brien
Byrne Robotics Member
Official JB Historian
Joined: 18 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 10934
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| Posted: 15 May 2008 at 3:35pm | IP Logged | 8
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Er, just to clarify - that wasn't Chris Rock in Chasing Amy.
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Ed Deans
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 July 2007
Location: United States
Posts: 763
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| Posted: 15 May 2008 at 6:12pm | IP Logged | 9
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Dave, since it's a Layton commission, have you told him about this "copy"
for sale?
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Dan Avenell
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 06 March 2008
Posts: 1038
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| Posted: 15 May 2008 at 6:34pm | IP Logged | 10
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Inking is definitely an art form, and he seems pretty good at it - but he's inking what's already been inked, in the same way. (And not crediting either party). If he were to take uninked/original pencils and do his thing, I think he'd be justified in selling them. But as is, no.
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Dave Aikins
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 31 July 2007
Location: United States
Posts: 2110
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| Posted: 15 May 2008 at 7:00pm | IP Logged | 11
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Ed-
yep, emailed Layton. Didn't get a reply.
Hey, is Ray inking Layton's actual commissions?
He should...
This theory has a bit of "Bob Kane-ness" to it.
So far, do not have the balls to email Ray. Much rather bitch on a forum for
all to see then confront anyone directly.
Makes me feel like a man!!!
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Dave Aikins
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 31 July 2007
Location: United States
Posts: 2110
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| Posted: 15 May 2008 at 7:13pm | IP Logged | 12
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My Layton original
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Topic Closed)
