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Mike Farley
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 2701
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| Posted: 28 February 2008 at 2:13pm | IP Logged | 1
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Maybe the fact that Wolverine's claws had already been established as bionic implants should have dissuaded them from giving him biologic claws?
Oops...there I go bringing up pesky consistency again!
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Thorsten Brochhaus
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Joined: 25 August 2004
Posts: 328
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| Posted: 28 February 2008 at 2:25pm | IP Logged | 2
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I already thought back then that the bone claws are just done for a cheap "Whoa" effect. Or better, to repeat a "Whoa" effect that already had been done before (what made it so cheap the second time around). And nothing was gained exept this one moment, but quite a bit was taken away. Not a good deal.
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Aki Himmanen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: Finland
Posts: 635
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| Posted: 28 February 2008 at 2:27pm | IP Logged | 3
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I wonder what they were thinking when they decided to give Wolverine bone claws.
I wouldn't be surprised if it was simply "it'll make for a really cool, shocking splash page in his comic that will drive hardcore fans apeshit."
Edit: ...like Thorsten said just now! Huh.
Edited by Aki Himmanen on 28 February 2008 at 2:28pm
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Paulo Pereira
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Joined: 24 April 2006
Posts: 15539
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| Posted: 28 February 2008 at 4:20pm | IP Logged | 4
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Yeah, it was just for "kewl" factor. Aside from the fact that it's moronic, it adds absolutely nothing to the character. In fact, it takes away.
Anyway, I think the idea came about because Peter David joked that Magneto should just rip out Wolverine's skeleton. Peter David:
QUOTE:
| Actually, what happened was that we were all discussing how we were going to have Magneto’s return be a big deal. The other writers were bouncing around the notion of a huge Magneto/Wolverine slugfest and I said, thinking out loud, “Boy, y’know, if I’m Magneto, I don’t even bother with Wolverine. I just yank out his skeleton and be done with him.” And there was dead silence for a moment, and then everyone looked at me and said, “That’s a great idea.”
And I said, “No, it’s not.”
And they said, “Yeah! It’ll be a great visual!”
I said, “Well, sure, but then he’s dead. He can’t survive having his entire skeleton ripped out.”
“He has a healing factor!”
“Healing factor?! If you rip out his whole skeleton, he’s a pile of flesh on the floor! He’ll be a healed pile of flesh! What’ll he do? Ooze at people?!”
See, my vision of it was that Magneto ripped out the entire skeleton, not just excises the adamantium that was laced into it. Figures that my biggest contribution to X-continuity was simply voicing a passing thought. |
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The whole story can be found here (about halfway down the page). Anyway, I'm betting that when it was decided that Magneto would tear out the metal in Logan's skeleton is when someone came up with the bright idea for the claws to be natural. The image below underlines the absurdity of the idea --
Nuff said?
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Jim Campbell
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 October 2006
Posts: 380
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| Posted: 28 February 2008 at 5:33pm | IP Logged | 5
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QUOTE:
Aside from the fact that it's moronic, it adds absolutely nothing to
the character. |
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Can I just mention that the cover linked here manages a quite astonishing
feat. It is:
1) A strong contender for the most horrible, charmless piece of artwork I
have ever seen from a mainstream publisher
2) The graphic design is awful
3) The typography is so bad that it deserves a whole separate mention,
even though it could be considered part of the design.
Seriously, that's f*ckin' 'orrible.
Cheers!
Jim
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Greg Scarborough
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 15 October 2007
Location: United States
Posts: 149
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| Posted: 29 February 2008 at 4:16pm | IP Logged | 6
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My problem with the whole Magneto fillets Wolverine thing is that Magneto has fought the X-Men (with Wolverine) numerous times. Why did he never de-bone him before?
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Paulo Pereira
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 24 April 2006
Posts: 15539
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| Posted: 29 February 2008 at 4:19pm | IP Logged | 7
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Magneto is a killer but I'm not sure that kind of act wouldn't be beneath even him.
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Jason Schulman
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Joined: 08 July 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 2473
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| Posted: 29 February 2008 at 4:26pm | IP Logged | 8
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There are soooo many Marvel stories that deserve the DC "forget that story, it never happened" treatment. Bone-claws Wolverine is one of them.
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Andrew W. Farago
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Joined: 19 July 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 4079
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| Posted: 29 February 2008 at 4:41pm | IP Logged | 9
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If they hadn't shown Wolverine using the bone claws as a kid in Origin, you
could probably dismiss the bone claws that Logan developed after losing his
adamantium as his body's attempt to put itself back to "normal." His body
had gotten used to having retractable claws, so when Magneto messed him
up and forced his healing factor to work overtime, his body created the bone
claws in an attempt to fix itself.
It still wouldn't make much sense at all, but that would have been one way
to explain that the bone claws weren't there from birth.
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Vinny Valenti
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Joined: 17 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 8117
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| Posted: 29 February 2008 at 4:45pm | IP Logged | 10
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I thought it would have made an interesting arc, since I assumed that with bone claws, Wolverine would have been tauntingly powerless, with the bones breaking any time he'd try to cut anything harder than tissue paper. But almost immediately he was cutting through virtually everything like nothing happened. What was the point then?
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Paulo Pereira
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Joined: 24 April 2006
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| Posted: 29 February 2008 at 4:51pm | IP Logged | 11
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I'd have to ask what the point was in the first place. They require a complex mechanism to work yet they're not very useful, unless for some reason the writers forget that they're no longer adamantium and can still cut anything.
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Gregg Halecki
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Joined: 03 June 2005
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| Posted: 29 February 2008 at 5:35pm | IP Logged | 12
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Let me address these one at a time....
Quote--
Wolverine's bone claws are a complex mechanical system which would require complex mechanical mechanisms, like gears, springs, what have you. Nature simply doesn't devise such mechanisms (except perhaps on a smaller scale).
End--
Show me how it is more "plausable" or logical for a human being to grow feathered wings that allow him to fly than it is to grow bone claws.
Quote---
No, but then they're not made of bone either. And they're not a foot and a half long (or however long Wolverine's claws are), so they're not liable to break as easily. Of course, they were shown to break at times, which makes the premise even more ludicrous.
end---
Ludicrous to you. Fine opinion to have if you wish, but certainly a subjective matter, not factual, therefore not of much merit for the purpose of proving anything (other than of course what your opinion is).
Quote---
They are useful because the script requires it. No real thought was put into the decision to reveal Wolverine's claws as natural. And if it's a useless mutation, what's the point?
End----
Your reply is in itself a reply to you. They are what they are because the script requires it. If some things that the script require are ok, they all must be. If "because they said so" is not valid, than it is not valid. You can't pick and choose.
Quote-
It's a not uncommon condition in the real world, called polydactylism. What's that got to do with Marvel's golden goose?
End---
It has to do with the fact that YOU claim that a mutation HAS to be useful. I pointed out that is is established that you are wrong. It has been shown on page that what you insist upon is NOT the way that it is.
Quote-
Whereas changing "basic anatomy" to "human anatomy" in order to make
your point is the very sole of logical cogitation?
End-
I gotta admit. I guess I DID misquote "human anatomy" for "basic anatomy". I don't really see that there should be any distinction in the context of this discussion, but it appears that I DID mistype in my post. Sincere apologies if it actually confused anyone, as opposed to it being used as a "got ya" card to somehow try to invalidate invalidate my arguement.
Quote--
Name an animal -- living, or from the fossil record -- that has "spring
loaded" claws that retract fully into its forelimbs, and you will have an
argument in favor of Wolverine's bone claws as a natural mutation.
End---
Show me an animal -- living, or from the fossil record -- that has feathered wings growing from their shoulderblades capable of supporting several times the animal's weight, and also has two arms and two legs, and you will have an arguement in favor of Angle's wings being acceptable and wolverine's claws not being.
As far as the spring loaded part, it can conceivably be that no such mechanism is even needed for the claws to do what they do.
Take your finger and push a quarter accross the table. It doesn't go that far because your finger doesn't move that fact. However, hold your finger in place with your thumb and try to push. Let go with your thumb, and your finger now moved much faster. (Far easier to just do than to actually explain) The common term for this would be to "flick" your finger. I think a similar biological mechanism could be at play in Logan's hand. But I guess that is far less believable that having someone grow GILLS on their ANKLES that happen to look like wings and are able to no only let someone fly, but carry many tons of weight while doing so.
Is it REALLY so hard to put up with that Wolverine's bones could be naturally stronger (to a point at least) and more dense than a normal human? Certainly he shouldn't be cutting through concrete or steel with them (but he shouldn't be doing that even with adamantium claws either, but that is another story.) but enough to do some real damage to regular flesh and bone.
Yes, I agree that it was established to some extent that the claws were completely artificial. Yes I agree that there wasn't a NEED to change it. But they did. Saying that they shouldn't have changed it because it was something established, is perfectly reasonable. But saying that the NEW status quo doesn't make sense because you don't think they should change it is intelectually dishonest.
Wolverine having natural claws is much LESS of a slap in the face of "realism" than so many other things that are accepted as commonplace.
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Topic Closed)
