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Andrew W. Farago
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 2005 July 19
Location: United States
Posts: 4079
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| Posted: 2008 April 10 at 4:09pm | IP Logged | 1
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but alot of his work is actually some pretty legit usage of
photographs.
Technically speaking, though (and this is spelled out in that Marvel
letter), "legit usage" of photographs only involves photos that an artist
takes himself, or work that's in the public domain. Recent issues of
Sports Illustrated and Playboy, for example, contain work that belongs to
the photographers who took the photos.
You can get around all this by making the argument that the addition of
superhero costumes and explosions changes the photo enough that it's
no longer the same thing, but it's pretty dodgy.
What's really amazing to me about some of the swipes posted is the
number of them that seem to be exact tracings of the works that they're
"referencing." It's lazy enough to crib a pose or layout from some other
source, but any decent art student should be able to imitate a picture
without having to trace it.
Edited by Andrew W. Farago on 2008 April 10 at 4:10pm
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 2005 May 11
Posts: 133513
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| Posted: 2008 April 10 at 8:52pm | IP Logged | 2
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You know what I think would end this shit? If a company finds out an artist is swiping, then the next time he does a comic for them, they send a portion of his paycheck to the artist or artists he swiped from.•• That's a more slippery slope than you might think. I have done some swiping in my day -- my very, very early day! -- and. sure, I could see paying the original artist some kind of "design fee", if such a thing had been worked out at the time. But the problems arise when something is not actually a swipe -- such as that Captain-America-running-at-the-camera pose. Only so many ways to draw that. Even more specifically, in an issue of SHE-HULK I drew a large shot of Spider-Man, and since McFarlane's Spider-Man was "definitive" at the time, I drew my most McFarlane-esque version of the character -- and was promptly accused of swiping by someone with his nose firmly lodged between the Toddler's butt cheeks. Sometimes what seems a "swipe" is more about the skill of the artist, rather than the lack of it.
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Knut Robert Knutsen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 2006 September 22
Posts: 7374
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| Posted: 2008 April 10 at 11:05pm | IP Logged | 3
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I think taking it out of the artist's paycheck removes the responsibilty from editorial, just like that letter attempts to. If the company got fined, that would put pressure on editorial to instruct their artists: No swipes or no work.
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Dave Aikins
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 2007 July 31
Location: United States
Posts: 2110
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| Posted: 2008 April 11 at 12:30am | IP Logged | 4
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ya know, it's pretty much standard in the publishing work-for -hire contracts that I get for them to include a clause that the work you're producing is free of this sort of possible legal troubles.
I have a feeling that Marvel's memo is nothing more then a reminder that folks should read their contracts, not by any means a change in policy.
Mistakes are made, but it's fascinating to see who over-reacts and who under-reacts, from both fans and pros. The discusions on other boards about the Mack cover alone made me want to crawl into a fetal position and weep...
Pros claiming "that's how it's done! No problem!"
Pros claiming "I teach art! It's fine! No problem! "
and then marvel changed the cover.
I've made this mistake as a pro, sure. Did it, thought "oops", and now try hard not to do it again. It's very tempting when you work in a certain realism to want to be lazy. Sometimes lazy wins. However, as a full time freelance artist, why would I want to do anything that would put my financial life in jeopardy? All that I've worked for could be screwed due to a lawsuit. I don't get why anyone would want to even dangle that opportunity in someones' face. But again, sometimes you make a poor call, and the odds of an actual lawsuit are probably pretty slim.
I'm mostly talking about photo swipes. Comic art swipe I justr don't get. It seems like it would take more time to flip through comics to find a certain pose than it would to just draw the damn thing...
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 2005 May 11
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| Posted: 2008 April 11 at 7:28am | IP Logged | 5
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It seems like it would take more time to flip through comics to find a certain
pose than it would to just draw the damn thing...
••
Which is why it has been traditional for many artists to keep "swipe files".
I kid you not.
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Paulo Pereira
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Joined: 2006 April 24
Posts: 15539
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| Posted: 2008 April 11 at 7:38am | IP Logged | 6
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I can readily believe that.
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Knut Robert Knutsen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 2006 September 22
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| Posted: 2008 April 11 at 10:59am | IP Logged | 7
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On swiping and photorealism : I just finished reading a copy of Dave Sim's Glamourpuss (it was an advance edition) and it's a beautiful piece about photorealism in comics and especially Alex Raymond. He's redrawn lots of examples of the Rip Kirby strip (mainly because the reproductions he has are too poor to capture the fine lines of the originals). All of them appropriately credited, of course.
Anyone else read this?
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Ron Chevrier
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 2004 April 16
Location: Canada
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| Posted: 2008 April 11 at 11:52am | IP Logged | 8
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I have, and I was very impressed by his drawings. Don't know where he's going with it, though, story-wise, but the art is fantastic.
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Dave Aikins
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| Posted: 2008 April 11 at 12:37pm | IP Logged | 9
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"Which is why it has been traditional for many artists to keep "swipe files".
I kid you not."
Which would be followed up with "It seems like it would take more time to flip through swipe files than it would to just draw the damn thing..."
I have piles of ref pix from magazines that have gone unorganized for probably 10 years. I had my nephew try to help put them in basic piles, but I think the pictures of ladies from Stuff magazine slowed him down a bit.
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Felicity Walker
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 2008 February 19
Location: Canada
Posts: 349
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| Posted: 2008 April 12 at 12:09am | IP Logged | 10
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Traditional, non-comics artists call their swipe files “morgues.”
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Topic Closed)
