"Ron, how do you even know Jim Lee hasn't swiped anything? Have you read and poured over every single comic in existence? You're attributing intentions to people you don't know on things you have no clue about."

I only intended to point out Rob Liefeld  (mentioned many times in this thread), as one of the most obvious comic book artists who has used swipes in his own work, in order to present what I would define as a swipe. In most cases, the page designs, composition, character poses, and panel arrangements belie a graphic virtuosity and technical ability that is not evident in his non-swiped, self-generated work either from the past or the stuff he is currently producing.

Whether or not other artists, Jim Lee included, have ever swiped does not really enter into the argument (Lee, in fact went through a period in which he aped Frank Miller's entire  Sin City style in order to draw Deathblow). I don't see how you could interpret my opinion as a question of the artist's intent. I am in fact trying to make a point about his skills as a cartoonist.

While I have not read every comicbook in existence (have you, smart guy?) I've read or seen a great deal  (note, I do not say "all") of the DC, Marvel, Image, Dark Horse, and "alternative" comics product of the last 30 years, particularly as regards the super hero category. I am familiar enough with the so-called "giants" of the industry and their respective styles of drawing and storytelling, that I can recognize an obvious swipe when I see it, regardless of your graphic arts textbook definition.

One of my favorite recent runs to catch up on was the DeFalco/Ron Frenz THOR run from sometime in the ehh early 90s???

Anyway, Frenz (amazing artist, simply amazing) starts off with a very strong John Buscema style, inked by Brett Breeding...

Culminating in Frenz lovingly referencing Kirby's Thor with Joe Sinnott finishing his layouts...

The application of a Kirby style, or a Buscema style, on an established character worked on by both men doesn't seem to "offend" anyone...though I'm sure there are detractors. Again, Frenz is referencing the style, not the substance, of Kirby's work. When a guy like Frenz is working with an inker/penciller like Sinnott, on THOR no less, how can one NOT take the opportunity to be witness the fusing of style and form? I don't feel Frenz is kicking Kirby's or Buscema's bones around, nor aping him.

I loved this run for the affection and care running through that art. The art is NOT Kirby, but speaks in visual cues I perceive to be Kirby. My affection and admiration for Frenz grew three sizes with this perception; I love the artist and everyone involved with that comic for giving me an "original" Thor comic that continues a tradition of style associated with Thor. Simonson, Sal Buscema, and Ron Frenz sweep through THOR during this time, with oddly the most distinctive and NON-Kirby art coming from the most traditional (and oldest) artist, Sal the Pal. While Simonson and Frenz continue a visual tradtion, Sal reiterates his own distinct visual cues; Sal Buscema has never needed to draw like anyone but Sal Buscema, as Gene Colan never needed to draw like anyone else, nor John Buscema, nor Ditko, nor Trimpe, nor Wood, nor Kane, nor Adams.

In the age of the reverential, it should come as no surprise that MOST comic book artists prior to Marvel's Silver Age drew, well, like themselves...while entire generations after have sought to illicit the visual traditions of the most influential artists. We've seen the danger of that, and the unique celebrations that could emerge from that reverence. Rightly or wrongly, this situation exists.

Tom Scioli renders unto Caesar that which is Caesar's...he seems to be following what Kirby would have required of any artist:

• Is the action clear...yes.
• Are the characters doing something...yes.

Would Kirby have told Scioli to move on? For certain. And will Scioli move on? Most likely. He's a young guy bound to figure out another visual tradition, depending on the project...creators (mostly) aren't relegated their whole lives to a thematic point, unless they're hacks. Considering GODLAND doesn't stand to make Scioli or anybody else a ton of cash/ardor, it isn't as though we're watching Kirby's legacy raped and pillaged...as long as someone somewhere still knows who the hell Kirby is/was, then Scioli (more than GODLAND itself) serves a definitive purpose.

Whether Scioli's art is actually up to the task (unlike Frenz, whose is), that's hard to say. I've seen some butt-ugly stuff from Scioli, and some rousing visuals as well...perhaps the ugly is where the true Scioli appears, or maybe it's the encrouching feeling of being "trapped" in Kirby's world. I'd be interested in seeing what the guy's stuff looks like in five years. Hack, or not?

That Bob Kane swipe is a beauty. From what I've seen lately the bulk of that first story has been identified as swipes.  And some accounts say that Bob Kane, while a decent "Bigfoot" cartoonist, struggled quite a bit with more "realistic" artwork.  Apparently even the "Chalk Talk" sketches he did on the road were ghosted, sketched lightly on the pad before he started in on them.

Rob Liefeld shouldn't have claimed Jack Kirby as his hero. Imagine the catchphrase "Rob Liefeld is the Bob Kane of the nineties!"

Even more of a problem than the obvious one in the linework in those Hulk swipes is the dynamic. The originals are mostly dynamic, action loaded shots but the swipes, even though they recreate the poses, completly miss the power of the originals. Most obvious in the shot where the Hulk punches away the Sub-Mariner

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Agreed - JB's punch has power.  The copy is more of a leggomyeggo shove.