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Topic: What constitutes a swipe? (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post ReplyPost New Topic
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John Angelo
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Joined: 08 January 2007
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Posted: 19 February 2008 at 8:28pm | IP Logged | 1  

Fun side-by-sides comparisons!
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Bradley Dean
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Posted: 19 February 2008 at 8:29pm | IP Logged | 2  

The Mighty Mouse cover is a hoot!!
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Roger A Ott II
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Posted: 19 February 2008 at 9:02pm | IP Logged | 3  

Brian Talley:  And there are more, Roger.
_______________________________________

Have a list or know where I can find one?  I'm thinking of doing an homage (not a swipe!) of that particular posing for an upcoming project using Iron Man and either Pepper Potts or Madame Masque, and I'd like to list all the various places that posing has been used in the past.
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Chris Abel
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Posted: 19 February 2008 at 9:11pm | IP Logged | 4  

There's an 80 page long thread at the imagecomics.com forums that has montages of the same cover swipe/homages.

http://imagecomics.com/messageboard/viewtopic.php?t=5327



Edited by Chris Abel on 19 February 2008 at 9:14pm
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Brian Talley
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Posted: 19 February 2008 at 9:18pm | IP Logged | 5  

Roger...take a look here....

http://vu.morrissey-solo.com/moz/perez/homages.htm

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Flavio Sapha
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Posted: 19 February 2008 at 9:20pm | IP Logged | 6  

I always wondered what this montage is doing in the Morrissey-solo
place...?
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Roger A Ott II
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Posted: 19 February 2008 at 9:25pm | IP Logged | 7  

Thanks!  Wow...that's a pretty exhaustive list...
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Mike O'Brien
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Posted: 19 February 2008 at 10:25pm | IP Logged | 8  

Well, Flavio, any Mozz fan will tell you that the Smith's "Hand in Glove" is a reference to swiping.

No, wait, Flavio's right!  What the hell is that doing on a Morrissey page??

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Knut Robert Knutsen
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Posted: 19 February 2008 at 11:59pm | IP Logged | 9  

Most artists swipe at some point. But there are different levels of swipes, some of which are considered acceptable. 

Wally Wood was a master of the swipe. He is famous for his whole mantra about not drawing what you can swipe etc. But his inking so radically transformed the traced pencil drawings that the swipes became barely recognizable as such. His art was in the inking, not the swiped pencils, so he's forgiven.

Some artists swipe heavily when they're new. If they swipe from earlier issues of books they're working on, that's usually seen as accpeted by editorial, making it not as much a legal issue as an ethical one.

Then there are the hacks who trace from many different and highly recognizable sources, without concern for how the traced art fits with the storytelling or whether the characters look consistent.

The negative legal side is if you're swiping art or photographs copyrighted to someone other than yourself or your employer.  A Superman artist who bases his Superman on licensed artwork depicting Christopher Reeve as Superman is different from a guy who bases his Wonder Woman on the likeness of an actress in a highly recognizable photo spread by a famous photographer. If they're litigious, there is no defense.

The negative ethical side is if you're tracing artwork in such a way that you're appropriating their style as well. There was a very high profile example in the 80s when Keith Giffen, while trying to improve stylistically, started tracing Jose Munoz's work in detail. Lifting entire panels as well as his style. I don't think he suffered legal consequences, but ethically, he's still living that one down.

In short, unless your reference is copyrighted by you or in the public domain, or constitutes only a small part of an overall piece, you should seek to "transform" it either stylistically or compositionally in order to bring your own artistic personality to bear on it as much as possible.

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Jason Czeskleba
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Posted: 20 February 2008 at 1:12am | IP Logged | 10  

Knut, you use "swiping" and "tracing" interchangeably above, and they are not the same thing.  Tracing is always swiping (unless it's done in deliberate and obvious homage) but swiping is not always tracing.  A freehand drawing that is an exact copy of a pose can be swiping.  As far as I know Giffen did not literally trace Munoz, for example.  He copied exactly, but did not trace.  
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Knut Robert Knutsen
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Posted: 20 February 2008 at 2:00am | IP Logged | 11  

I'm sorry, Jason. You're right, I can't say that he traced the panels in detail. He did however COPY them in detail. The end result being the same, but I should not have inferred tracing where a remarkable abillity to copy exactly without lightboxing is a possibility.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 20 February 2008 at 3:49am | IP Logged | 12  

Sometime within the past 20 years or so, a "new breed" of artists have learned the word "homage", and this has seriously muddied the waters when it comes to swiping.

Those variants on the cover of FF 1, posted up-thread, are true homages in the old sense -- they take the basic concept of the original and rework it without actually copying the original. The closer the "new" drawing comes to the original, however, the less it is truly a "homage", and the more it is a swipe. The comparison between the SUPERMAN and JONAH HEX covers show swiping in its literal sense.

When George did his CRISIS cover, many pointed to it as a swipe of my X-MEN cover, and the similarities are quite strong. George, however, maintains that he was inspired by that THOR cover, and I have no reason to doubt him. This moves it out of the swipe arena, and comfortably into homage territory. (That X-MEN cover was probably still fresh in George's mind, which would explain the superficial similarities to my work. I call this "swiping from memory", and it's something entirely different -- and usually unintentional -- from a true swipe. It's also something most artists have found themselves doing at one time or another, so many images being so iconic.)

Bottom line comes back to something I said years ago -- swiping is a good way to learn. It's not a good way to make a living.

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