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Nathan Greno
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Joined: 20 April 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 9154
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| Posted: 19 February 2008 at 8:01pm | IP Logged | 1
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John, I just posted the few images I had swimming around on my desk top.
So.....
Isn't a swipe done knowingly? Aren't some images similar by coincidence? I found these images on a "swipe site"...is this really a swipe?? Yes, they are kinda similar -- but I would not call this a "swipe"!
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Roger A Ott II
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Joined: 29 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5371
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| Posted: 19 February 2008 at 8:04pm | IP Logged | 2
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Wow, Brian, that one sure has made the rounds...
Edited by Roger A Ott II on 19 February 2008 at 8:05pm
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Jason Czeskleba
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Joined: 30 April 2004
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| Posted: 19 February 2008 at 8:07pm | IP Logged | 3
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Brian Floyd wrote:
| Swipe = not just tracing, but copying a pose or a picture, even if you
make changes. Any recreation of art is a swipe...technically even if
its done by the original artist. |
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My understanding is that a pose or a figure needs to be copied pretty much exactly, to constitute a swipe. It must look as though it were traced, even if it was not. Doing a similar pose is not a swipe. So in the examples above, the Jonah Hex cover would be a swipe. All the various "Pieta" themed covers are not swipes of each other, since they are different enough in many details beyond the basic pose.
Also, it's only a swipe if the artist copies someone else's work and takes credit for it. If credit is given for the original work, then it is an homage. For example, JB's numerous FF #1-themed covers are not swipes, because he always credits Kirby and its obvious what his source material was.
Edited by Jason Czeskleba on 19 February 2008 at 8:08pm
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Greg Elmore
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Joined: 06 December 2007
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| Posted: 19 February 2008 at 8:09pm | IP Logged | 4
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Hunter McFalls
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Joined: 08 January 2007
Location: United States
Posts: 681
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| Posted: 19 February 2008 at 8:10pm | IP Logged | 5
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The cover of X-Men 136 is one of my favorite images of all time.
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Mark Hacker
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Joined: 31 May 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 41
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| Posted: 19 February 2008 at 8:12pm | IP Logged | 6
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There's a thread on Newsarama (I know that's an evil place but...) that has numerous examples of Greg Land tracing and photo sampling or whatever it's called. Just search for his name and I'm sure it'll come up. It's a very long thread.
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Dave Aikins
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Joined: 31 July 2007
Location: United States
Posts: 2110
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| Posted: 19 February 2008 at 8:13pm | IP Logged | 7
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"Swiping", to me, is a polite way of claiming plagiarism, which is,
obviously, taking someone else's work and claiming it (and profiting from
it) as your own.
Now, artists use reference. Have for a long long time, and will keep
needing it for a long long time. The debate has always been "how much
copying until you've committed plagiarism"? From my schooling, the old
theory was "change it 10% and you're not plagiarizing".
Over the years, this has come under fire, and I would think is no longer
the minimum needed to get away with using something that isn't yours.
So...
What is a swipe?
At it's worst it's plagiarism.
At it's best/nicest, it's pointing out what the artist used (that wasn't their
own) as reference.
It can be a pose. It can be a design/layout. It can be tracing a photo. It
can be copying a pose a bit to closely. It can be an object from an
advertisement, an animal from a Googgled jpeg,etc,etc.
As for your own drawings/sketchbooks, copying is a great way to learn.
Even tracing can be a way to learn, as long as you're understanding what
it is you're drawing (how a muscle works, what part of an engine you're
drawing, etc.). Follow this with drawing from life, combining poses to
create new ones, drawing from your head, whatever makes you happy.
You have to have an understanding of the human body before you can
begin to draw a decent figure out of your head, so draw, draw, draw. Even
then you should never be afraid to seek out reference when needed. I've
found that it is fairly rare for people/artists to retain a great amount of
drawing ability just from memory. Artists like Kirby and Byrne, etc., are
some of the few, and that's one of the reasons they are so successful as
comic artists.
Years of drawing every day, all day, is also another key to success, as you
develop your "shorthand" faster, remember more, and need reference
less.
Your technique/style also helps with the reference questions. Do you
want to be a cartoonist like Schultz? A dynamic comic artist like Kirby? A
realist illustrator like Rockwell? All have different levels of needing
reference,
If you want to be a realism-style illustrator like Rockwell (or even like
Greg Land or Alex Ross), just remember to TAKE YOUR OWN REFERENCE!
Get your camera out, call up your friends, and start taking pictures.
No friends? Get a very posable action figure.
Hope this helps. It's enough of a rant to get things going. Sorry I don't
have time to type everything that I tell art students, but as I said it's a
start...
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Brian Talley
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Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
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| Posted: 19 February 2008 at 8:15pm | IP Logged | 8
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And there are more, Roger.
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Dave Aikins
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 31 July 2007
Location: United States
Posts: 2110
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| Posted: 19 February 2008 at 8:15pm | IP Logged | 9
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Oh, and a clearly marked or obvious "tribute", or "homage", is not the same
as a "swipe".
so there.
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Trevor Smith
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Joined: 21 September 2006
Location: Canada
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| Posted: 19 February 2008 at 8:18pm | IP Logged | 10
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Well greg, seeing as how iconic that particular cover is, and JB's frequently admitted adoration of Kirby's FF run, I'd say any sane, normal, reasonable, intelligent person would put those covers under the "homage" category, rather than "swipe". Wouldn't you?
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F. Ron Miller
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Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
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| Posted: 19 February 2008 at 8:19pm | IP Logged | 11
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Swipe? Homage?
"A bad writer borrows but a good writer steals" - T.S. Elliot
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Dave Aikins
Byrne Robotics Member
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Location: United States
Posts: 2110
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| Posted: 19 February 2008 at 8:22pm | IP Logged | 12
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a really bad writer gets caught.
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Topic Closed)
