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Eric White
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 October 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 1067
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| Posted: 20 February 2008 at 11:48am | IP Logged | 1
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He didn't use JB's art as a "template" he traced it. He said so himself. Ditton
paid MAC, he didn't pay Byrne, that's the part we all have a problem with
since he seemed to actually like the drawing except for one small part.
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Al Cook
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 December 2004
Posts: 12736
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| Posted: 20 February 2008 at 11:49am | IP Logged | 2
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QUOTE:
I know you don't agree with me, Al but keep in mind this piece of
art would never have existed if Ditton had not have commissioned it from
Byrne in the first place. It's not the same as having someone redraw a
cover or particular page of art. Byrne did all the work based on what
Ditton wanted. Whether intentional or not, Ditton got a Byrne
commission, redrawn by Castrillo cheaper than he would have had he just
bought the original. I don't think very many artists would be happy with
that situation, if it happened to them. |
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That's why I refer to it as stolen art, Eric.
But the way I'm looking at is this: If Ditton had paid for and received that
artwork, he would have ownership of it. He would then have the right to
have the piece of art he owns traced to produce a version with slightly
different details, as petty as that may seem. The artist doing so is doing
a swipe, of course, but that's what he's being asked to do. (But, also of
course, MAC has admitted to knowing he was doing a swipe, so that's a
moot point to me.) What I don't know is that MAC knew he was swiping
stolen art.
(I know this will be picked apart as a poor analogy, but...):
It's like if I stole JB's car, and took it to a auto finishers and asked them to
paint flames around the wheel wells, are the auto finishers to blame?
(Either for the fact that the car is stolen, or for my dreadful desecration of
an otherwise beautiful PT Cruiser?) Now, if I bought JB's car, I'd have the
right to have it refinished any tasteless way I see fit. Can't imagine JB
being pleased in either case -- "I don't think many artists would be happy
with that situation, if it happened to them", in your words -- but at least
in one he's not getting ripped off.
I imagine any honest auto finishers would stop work and call the cops if
they found out the car was stolen. I'm giving MAC the benefit of the
doubt on that one - it strikes me that he didn't know the full story behind
what he was being asked to do, and was proceeding from the assumption
that the piece he was being asked to trace/swipe was actually owned by
Ditton.
Edited by Al Cook on 20 February 2008 at 12:00pm
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Gerry Turnbull
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: Scotland
Posts: 8766
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| Posted: 20 February 2008 at 11:49am | IP Logged | 3
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Gerry Turnbull
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: Scotland
Posts: 8766
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| Posted: 20 February 2008 at 11:49am | IP Logged | 4
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Mike Murray
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 September 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 530
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| Posted: 20 February 2008 at 11:49am | IP Logged | 5
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...he said he had commissioned JB to do the piece but
for some reason the deall fell thru, he asked if i would trace the art and
include the bands on Marvells wrist."
****************************************
Hmm... it seems that you did know you were being paid to copy work that the original artist had not been compensated for. But, surely, if Ditton had not paid JB for the commission he had no right to hire you to "fix" it?
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Gerry Turnbull
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: Scotland
Posts: 8766
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| Posted: 20 February 2008 at 11:50am | IP Logged | 6
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Sue is a steal (!) at only 175
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Al Cook
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 December 2004
Posts: 12736
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| Posted: 20 February 2008 at 11:50am | IP Logged | 7
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(And of course, while I was writing my previous post, MAC posted that he
knew the deal had fallen through.)
Edited by Al Cook on 20 February 2008 at 12:01pm
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Gerry Turnbull
Byrne Robotics Member
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| Posted: 20 February 2008 at 11:50am | IP Logged | 8
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Anthony J Lombardi
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 January 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 9410
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| Posted: 20 February 2008 at 11:51am | IP Logged | 9
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Well Mac has stated that he willingly went along with what happened. I really am surprised.
I not going to hurl insults at MAC because I have to much respect for him. I know swipeing isn't something he needed to do.
I see this as an inking job so i'm not seeing it as a swipe.
But knowing that John Byrne wasn't paid for his work I wouldn't have takened the job under the circumstances that were in place at the time.
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Thom Price
Byrne Robotics Member
L’Homme Diabolique
Joined: 29 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 7593
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| Posted: 20 February 2008 at 11:52am | IP Logged | 10
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QUOTE:
| But do we know that Castrillo had all the details when he agreed to do what he was commissioned to do? <snip> So far for me it's Castrillo: benefit of the doubt |
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I guess your benefit of the doubt can now be laid to rest:
QUOTE:
know Pat sent me a link to the piece and asked if i could
lightbox the art as is, he said he had commissioned JB to do the piece but
for some reason the deall fell thru, he asked if i would trace the art |
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Out of all this drama, the two most interesting pieces of information to me is that JB accepts commissions without requiring payment up front, which seems remarkably trusting and good natured, and that out of hundreds of commissions only two have been dissatisfied. Pretty good ratio.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 20 February 2008 at 11:53am | IP Logged | 11
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The tracing of my X-MEN cover reimagining, above, raises another point of contention in all this. Wayne Osborne bought that cover, which makes him the owner of the physical work. If that physical work is being reproduced, he is entitled to a piece of that action.
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Anthony J Lombardi
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 January 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 9410
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| Posted: 20 February 2008 at 11:54am | IP Logged | 12
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traceing over pencils is what inkers do.....( i know it's more then that) but to shortcut it. The pencils are templates for what the inker is gonna "TRACE" over
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Topic Closed)
