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Scott Nickel
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 10 July 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 132
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| Posted: 20 February 2008 at 10:33am | IP Logged | 1
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Michael said:
So the act of designing of an image has some monetary value separate from
the physical artwork?
>>Certainly. But it's hard to quantify. We can all get a digital version of one of JB's commissions, right? Simply by piecing together the scans. What the buyer is paying for is the physical one-of-a-kind artwork.
Also, as it relates to comics, the physical artwork can oftentimes be much more valuable than the printed -- or digital -- piece. How much would an original page from Action Comics #1 fetch?
Getting back to your point, would you rather have a digital piece from John Byrne or the actual artwork you could frame and display? Which is more valuable?
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Joe Zhang
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 12857
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| Posted: 20 February 2008 at 10:35am | IP Logged | 2
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"In other words, if i knew that tracing the piece would insult anyone, offend
anyone, break laws even. I WOULD NOT HAVE DONE IT. "
Did it ever occur to you that you were stealing from another artist? If it did, how is theft in a better class than insults and law-breaking?
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Al Cook
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 December 2004
Posts: 12736
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| Posted: 20 February 2008 at 10:37am | IP Logged | 3
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Yeah, Trevor, I don't feel MAC should be held responsible for the fact
that Pat Ditton pulled an underhanded maneuver. He did what he did
(traced JB's image), and has admitted it, and be that as it may.
Ditton on the other hand commissioned a piece of artwork, refused
delivery and didn't pay for the work (as per JB's generous business model)
took the preview scan posted here, and had another artist trace it to
make a very petty change.
Did Ditton specifically request MAC to trace the JB piece? I expect so. It
seems unlikely that MAC would make that choice on his own. (For pity's
sake, he has enough talent to produce a spectacular, unique piece of
art himself].
Did Ditton inform MAC that he was not getting his version as a
companion to the JB version? Did MAC know that Ditton was doing an
end run on JB? Does it make Ditton any less of a jerk if MAC did know
these things?
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Monte Gruhlke
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 03 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 3303
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| Posted: 20 February 2008 at 10:38am | IP Logged | 4
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Hi Anthony!
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Armindo Macieira
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 15 October 2006
Location: Portugal
Posts: 955
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| Posted: 20 February 2008 at 10:43am | IP Logged | 5
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Well, I know Anthony unfrtunately might have bigger problems right now, but I'm an artist too, and do comissions sometimes and if anyone would appear with a JPEG of a comission and asked me to trace it, I'd at leat ask why? and probably wouldn't do it no matter what... a recreation maybe (if he owned the piece), a trace no.
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Michael Roberts
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 April 2004
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| Posted: 20 February 2008 at 10:43am | IP Logged | 6
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Getting back to your point, would you rather have a digital piece from John
Byrne or the actual artwork you could frame and display? Which is more
valuable?
---
I'd prefer to have physical artwork from any commissionee. But the point is
that if I hired someone to design something for me, and I used that design
in any manner, I'd owe that person compensation for the design, whether I
had something physical or not.
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Michael Roberts
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 April 2004
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| Posted: 20 February 2008 at 10:45am | IP Logged | 7
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Did it ever occur to you that you were stealing from another artist? If it did,
how is theft in a better class than insults and law-breaking?
---
I thought you were trying to break an internet forum addiction.
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Al Cook
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 December 2004
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| Posted: 20 February 2008 at 10:46am | IP Logged | 8
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QUOTE:
if I hired someone to design something for me, and I used that
design in any manner, I'd owe that person compensation for the design,
whether I had something physical or not. |
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So you agree then Michael that it's Pat Ditton who owes JB for the
design/layout/for-all-intents-and-purposes-"pencils" that were traced
from, and not MAC?
Edited by Al Cook on 20 February 2008 at 10:47am
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Knut Robert Knutsen
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Joined: 22 September 2006
Posts: 7374
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| Posted: 20 February 2008 at 10:48am | IP Logged | 9
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"
Knut said:
"Using his ostensibly rejected "design plans" to build a new but essentially identical "house" with a different contractor is intellectual property theft.
>>Oops...there it goes..."
Amazing. A retort that clearly indicates the quality of your wit.
--------------------------
May I ask why you feel the need to engage in personal attacks? Do I know you?"
And may I in turn ask you why you feel the need to interpret it as a personal attack?
I provided an argument which you dismissed with a pointless condescending witticism. I responded to your condescing witticism with a condescending witticism of my own.
Just following your lead here, Scott.
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Scott Nickel
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 10 July 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 132
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| Posted: 20 February 2008 at 10:49am | IP Logged | 10
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Micheal said:
I'd prefer to have physical artwork from any commissionee. But the point is
that if I hired someone to design something for me, and I used that design
in any manner, I'd owe that person compensation for the design, whether I
had something physical or not.
>>Again, it would depend on the agreement you had with the artist. I believe this is why most artists demand payment up front. What's Latin for "seller beware"?
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Anthony castrillo
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 February 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 781
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| Posted: 20 February 2008 at 10:49am | IP Logged | 11
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"Also interesting that a self-described Illustrator/Designer is blissfully
unaware that this could be seen as questionable."
Then you should have fun pointing fingers at just about every artist working
in the industry.
And you are partially correct, I should have know better but I was blissfully
ignorant.
mac
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Knut Robert Knutsen
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Joined: 22 September 2006
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| Posted: 20 February 2008 at 10:50am | IP Logged | 12
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"What's Latin for "seller beware"? "
Caveat Emptor.
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