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Greg Woronchak
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 September 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 1631
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| Posted: 27 February 2008 at 9:42am | IP Logged | 1
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Howard, who would you consider (past or present) a really fine editor?
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Howard Mackie
Byrne Robotics Security
Armed and Dangerous
Joined: 16 February 2005
Posts: 666
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| Posted: 27 February 2008 at 10:37am | IP Logged | 2
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I can only speak of those I worked with...
Ralph Macchio was a really good editor... he knew when to back off and when to step in... his first thoughts were always of the characters... he had the ability to get you to make changes and have it seem like it was MY idea to make them all along.
Sid Jacobson... I only had the pleasure of working with him once... and he was AMAZING! It was the beginning of my career as a writer. I had two meetings scheduled in the same day. One was with another editor(who remain nameless) and the other was with Sid. At the first meeting the editor picked my plot to death, essentially told me how terrible it was, and droned on and one about how much better it could have been. THEN he accepted the plot with no changes. I left the office thinking htat my writing career was over. I KNEW I sucked-- and this was BNEFORE the internet!
Then I went to Sid's office... he basically scrapped everything I wrote and had me start from scratch. BUT... he did it in such a way... amde me feel like I COULD do it... focused on all the good thing s that were in the plot, and how if I tweaked it here and there(and there, and there, and EVERWHERE) it woudl be a great story. I left that meeting overflowing with confidence and anxious to get back tot he typewriter(shows you how long ago that was). He was the BEST editor I ever worked with.
Thre are others, but as I think of our working relationships I always come upon qualifiers... and since most are still my friends... I will bite my tongue.
Way easier for me to remember they BAD editors, but I prefer NOT to engage int he kind of public talk. Buy me a beer sometime... and I could tell you stories.
Howard
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Vinny Valenti
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 8120
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| Posted: 27 February 2008 at 11:07am | IP Logged | 3
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" I've read an interview where Marv talked about how as editor he had
fought to keep the Tomb of Dracula team consistent, even down to
letterer John Costanza."
-----
Well, there's a side of the writer/editor issue that I hadn't considered. I guess there's room for compromise there - it's not unreasonable for a writer to want some control over who the rest of the creative team will be (I imagine JB would have been peeved if he was told by the editor that Tom Palmer was being taken away from X:HY).
I thought about this - what if, during the Writer/Editor days, the editor of a writer was another writer? E.g. Len Wein is Marv Wolfman's editor, Steve Gerber is Wein's editor, etc....Glenn and Howard, you've worn both hats....would it be better if an editor were at least some level of professional writer?
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Glenn Greenberg
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 6746
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| Posted: 27 February 2008 at 11:19am | IP Logged | 4
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Please delete.
Edited by Glenn Greenberg on 27 February 2008 at 11:22am
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Glenn Greenberg
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 6746
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| Posted: 27 February 2008 at 11:19am | IP Logged | 5
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<<<At the time, DC did not allow writer/editors, so initially Marv and Roy
had to give up their writer/editor status regardless of whether they left
Marvel or not. But Roy's standpoint (based on interviews I've read) was that
he viewed it as a "demotion" to have his editor status taken away. He
figured if he was going to get demoted anyway, he might as well go to DC,
just to make a stand on principle. I imagine Marv felt similarly. And a
couple years later DC changed the rules and did allow Roy and Marv to
become writer/editors again.>>>
I stand corrected on that point. Thanks for the info, Jason!
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133326
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| Posted: 27 February 2008 at 11:35am | IP Logged | 6
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There are basically two kinds of editors, with the only real variance being in degree. There are the editors who hire people based on what they know those people can do, and then let them do it, and there are the editors who think the work the talent turns in is raw material for them to shape into a finished product.Unfortunately, many, many times, these editors end up with the wrong people working for them.
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Glenn Greenberg
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 6746
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| Posted: 27 February 2008 at 11:42am | IP Logged | 7
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<<<Glenn and Howard, you've worn both hats....would it be better if an
editor were at least some level of professional writer?>>>
Doesn't matter to me. Some editors are inclined toward the writing,
others are more inclined toward the art. All that matters to me is how the
person functions as an EDITOR.
Tim Tuohy, my editor on Star Trek and Dracula, was an inker in his
freelance life, and while I believe he had aspirations of writing
professionally someday, it was not a top priority for him. However, he
was one of the best editors I ever worked with. He had really good story
sense, and he was supportive, enthusiastic, critical but in a constructive
way, and very open and forthcoming. As a result, we trusted each other
fully. It's no coincidence that I think I did my best work for him, and I
look back at that work fondly to this day.
Ralph Macchio, who wrote plenty of stories (including one of my favorite
Dracula tales), is another editor I worked with for an extended period of
time, and I echo Howard's positive sentiments (even though Ralph made
me change the last chapter of "Goblins at the Gate" in SPECTACULAR
SPIDER-MAN--Grrrrrrrrrr!!!!!). :-)
As a writer, I was lucky enough to only work with ONE editor who I would
consider to be truly BAD. Just downright incompetent and clueless.
Unfortunately, it was on what SHOULD have been a dream project for me.
Edited by Glenn Greenberg on 27 February 2008 at 11:44am
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Howard Mackie
Byrne Robotics Security
Armed and Dangerous
Joined: 16 February 2005
Posts: 666
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| Posted: 27 February 2008 at 12:19pm | IP Logged | 8
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<<Glenn and Howard, you've worn both hats....would it be better if an editor were at least some level of professional writer?>>
Mark Gruenwald felt that it was important experience something "on the other side of the desk". I fell that it is a good idea for an editor to have some wwriting skills, but will agree with Glenn... it is most importnat that they be a professional editor. In school my kids have had some teachers(art and music) who had obviosuly failed in their chosen careers, and so settled on becoming a techer. They were the worst teachers.
I do recall that after I left staff to pursue a full time writing career... probably a year later... I cam to the realization that I would be a MUCH better editor NOW than I was back then.
Howard
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Greg Woronchak
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 September 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 1631
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| Posted: 27 February 2008 at 12:31pm | IP Logged | 9
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Buy me a beer sometime... and I could tell you stories.
Lol, if you even come to Montreal, I know this quaint Irish pub...<g>
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Ron Chevrier
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 1641
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| Posted: 27 February 2008 at 3:57pm | IP Logged | 10
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Hey Greg, is it the same quaint Irish Pub that recently ran afoul of our "beloved" language cops for, y'know, having decor on the wall that suggested it was an Irish Pub?
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Jason Czeskleba
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 30 April 2004
Posts: 4622
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| Posted: 27 February 2008 at 7:47pm | IP Logged | 11
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Beyond 70's Marvel, some other really great writer/editor runs I can think of include Harvey Kurtzman's EC work, Kubert's Tarzan, and Kirby's Fourth World. Eisner was essentially writer/editor of the Spirit sections too, I believe. Others have of course mentioned Stan... everything he did was writer/editor, though I guess he's kind of a unique case because working Marvel style the artist was always the co-writer. I guess the point being that although not everyone is capable of self editing it has been a system that with the right creators has yielded some great work.
I remember reading an interview with Gerry Conway. During his first stint at DC (in 1975-76) he was a writer/editor. He then went back to Marvel for a year, and when he returned to DC in 1977 he was told they'd abolished writer/editors. When he asked why, he was told that there were some writers who wanted to become writer/editors that DC felt were not qualified to edit. Rather than tell them they weren't qualified and potentially alienate them, DC decided to simply eliminate all writer/editors. I guess it is probably true that the people who can self-edit effectively are outnumbered by those that can't.
Edited by Jason Czeskleba on 27 February 2008 at 7:58pm
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Greg Woronchak
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 September 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 1631
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| Posted: 28 February 2008 at 8:12am | IP Logged | 12
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Hi Ron. Yup, that's the one. Gotta love language tolerance...
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