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Eric White
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 October 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 1067
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| Posted: 24 February 2008 at 8:21pm | IP Logged | 1
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He's right.
A publisher would end up making more money on a book that only
shipped 4 times in a year but sold 100,000 issues each over a book that
shipped 12 times in a year but only sold 33,000 issues each.
Assuming the creative costs are roughly the same, 4 x total cost vs. 12 x
total cost to the publisher, the publisher would have to pay out more to
publish the 12 lower selling issues. Total printing costs would also be
lower for the 4 issues over 12. So, it's a no-brainer that a publisher
would make more profit on the bigger selling books, even if they only
ship 4 times a year vs 12 low selling issues.
But, if all books have the same sell-through, it's irrelevant to a retailer
what the publishers costs are, they make the same money selling 12
monthly lower selling books or 4 big selling books using those sales
figures.
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Scott Sackett
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 407
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| Posted: 24 February 2008 at 8:27pm | IP Logged | 2
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Keep trying. Your math is still wrong.
***
Fair enough, I'm still sick.
Please elaborate.
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Scott Sackett
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 407
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| Posted: 24 February 2008 at 8:35pm | IP Logged | 3
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But, if all books have the same sell-through, it's irrelevant to a retailer
what the publishers costs are, they make the same money selling 12
monthly lower selling books or 4 big selling books using those sales
figures.
***
The problem with that is the retailers have monthly bills. When a book dosen't ship, people don't get paid. Some of those people are living week to week anyway.
Most of the big name talent has bigger outside income than their page rates. Most retailers don't have that luxury.
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Chris Back
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 683
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| Posted: 24 February 2008 at 9:14pm | IP Logged | 4
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How does lateness effect the inker, letterer, etc? It has to be a pain turning down other work because a project scheduled for that month never arrives.
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Richard Stevens
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1954
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| Posted: 24 February 2008 at 9:21pm | IP Logged | 5
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If the editors are different these days, what are the odds some of the
slowdowns are due to having to draw and redraw stuff as the winds
change? When I used to do freelance design, an inexperienced client could
turn a week's work into a month.
Edited by Richard Stevens on 24 February 2008 at 9:22pm
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Erin Anna Leach
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 February 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 746
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| Posted: 24 February 2008 at 10:17pm | IP Logged | 6
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Well, I'm going to assume most of the new artist working at either arvel or DC have a BFA in somesort of comercial art field. How the hell did these people get their degrees by not doing the work in school? I have on many occasion said that going to art school full time, is just like working on comic books. Well, that is if you want to get good grades. Being an artist and not getting good grades in art school sounds a bit hypocritical to me. If they could do the work load of college, they should be able to produce a monthly comic, right?
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Glenn Brown
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 3095
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| Posted: 25 February 2008 at 12:05am | IP Logged | 7
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I wouldn't make that assumption. I don't think art school has become any more of an entry point to drawing comics professionally than it ever was in the past.
I think there may be something to the point that a lack of education may be related to a lack of discipline and professionalism.
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Joakim Jahlmar
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 10 October 2005
Location: Sweden
Posts: 6080
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| Posted: 25 February 2008 at 2:17am | IP Logged | 8
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Aaron Smith wrote:
"The more and more I hear about late artists, bad storytelling, 'decompression' and all that other crap, the more I think it would be a good idea if every writer and artist assigned to a long-running character were chained to a chair and forecd to read the Essentials or Showcases."
You may be on to something there, Aaron. Now how do we sell this novel idea to the Big Two?
Howard Mackie wrote:
"No kidding! REally... Iread this quote and couldn't decide if this editor was arrogant, uninformed, or just stupid. Again... for all those making the growing roses arguments of the previous pages... it is ALL about defining your medium. If you are working in MONTHLY comic books, and the books do not come out MONTHLY... you have FAILED!. DO something else.... or clearly redefine your business model."
That's really one of the things I find most baffling about this whole thing, Howard. I mean taking aside the fact that a lot of these people seem to be slowpokes on account of various forms of unprofessionalism and all that, it is so totally beyond me as to why, o why, the companies haven't just shifted the publishing intervalls. I mean if they notice continuously that a certain title is coming in late, why not go, "hm, only nine issues in a year, maybe we should make it bi-quarterly and on time..."
As it stands, someone ought to send these peple a good dictionary with a post-it marking the page where MONTHLY is defined and underline the word a couple of times as well so that they don't miss it.
Flavio wrote:
"Well, then, I am stumped. Can't think of one book I enjoyed produced by the Rose-Growers. Truth be told, the less these guys produce, the easier I sleep."
Well, I do know there are books that have been late that I've rather enjoyed (most of the time not knowing it was late in the first place since I caught up in TPB), but that does sure as heck not alter my perception that those books shouldn't have been marketed as monthlies.
A good example (that I admit enjoying) would be "Ultimates". The latest TPB (book 2 vol. 2) was delayed as TPB by roughly a year (if not more) on account of delays in publishing the comic. Now, I still found it one of the better Ultimate Universe stories, but I also thought it had lost a great deal of what I enjoyed with the first volumes. Was the long wait on account of delays worth it? I don't see that it markedly improved the comic, though I'm sure if I looked on each separate panel for a long while I might get some extra detail (though maybe not)... but that's not necessarily the main thing that matters in a comic, IHMO.
Paul Greer wrote:
"The retail level store owners should be demanding higher selling books like Ultimates or All Star Batman and Robin come out monthly. They are the ones who are losing out on the chance to sell more comics. Yes, producing a comic twelve times a year costs the publisher more money, but it gives the retailer more money to earn. Which, by the way, would give retailers extra money to stock more titles and make even more money for both them and the publisher. At least that's how this capitalist sees things."
Hey, Paul, you can't run a business in a capitalist manner and... o hang on a minute... that's just what you could isn't it? ;)
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Al Flores
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 December 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 511
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| Posted: 25 February 2008 at 3:17am | IP Logged | 9
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What if each issue sold 40k and was put out for 12 months?
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Howard Mackie
Byrne Robotics Security
Armed and Dangerous
Joined: 16 February 2005
Posts: 666
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| Posted: 25 February 2008 at 8:48am | IP Logged | 10
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<<At Wizard World Chicago one of the Marvel editors was talking about their talent search and mentioned they expected their artists to pencil a book in six weeks.>>
I can't seem tot get past this one. The REAL problem is that when you have diminished expectation(6 weeks to pencil a MONTHLY) you ALWAYS get less. "Well... they didn't REALLY mena 6 weeks! I'm sure if I took seven or 8... they will understand that my dog ate my homework... that my 14th grandmother died... that, blah, blah, blah..."
Howard
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133324
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| Posted: 25 February 2008 at 8:59am | IP Logged | 11
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But, if all books have the same sell-through, it's irrelevant to a retailer
what the publishers costs are, they make the same money selling 12
monthly lower selling books or 4 big selling books using those sales
figures.
••
For the sake of discussion, assume that to be true. Would the same
publisher not make even more if the "big selling" books came out six times
a year? Or eight? Or, gosh golly, 12?
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Greg Woronchak
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 September 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 1631
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| Posted: 25 February 2008 at 9:21am | IP Logged | 12
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they didn't REALLY mena 6 weeks! I'm sure if I took seven or 8
Using an example from animation, I was asked to do a 300 page storyboard for a show in two weeks, on account of an incompetent production manager (standard for the industry is to allow artists a minimum of 4 weeks to do a 'rough' board).
Somehow I managed to complete the work (a bit delirious at the end, I must say), but the director hated it because it wasn't 'clean' enough. I found out that artists on the same team had handed their work in over two weeks late on account of the impossible deadline.
I was shown the door, and the 'slow' artists who delayed the entire production continued to get work.
I guess if I would've chosen to ignore the concept of 'deadline', I might still have the gig, but that's the way it goes....
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