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Joie Simmons
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Posted: 23 February 2008 at 6:01am | IP Logged | 1  

Printer dates are a huge problem, too, and why everything should be on
time. Even if the printer date is missed by a couple of days, that can push
the whole thing back by weeks.

I'm working on a catalog right now and we don't have all the information
to send it out and we now have basically a week to get it all, design it and
lay it out, write it and get it edited so it will make the printer date. AND
we're at the mercy of people giving us the information but if it's late
myself and the editor will be the ones who get called into the bosses
office because we missed the deadline.

But, we know it has to go at a particular date and, even though the
workload seems a tad bit unreasonable right now, we won't miss that
deadline. I have a personal policy that I do everything I can to not miss a
deadline.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 23 February 2008 at 6:53am | IP Logged | 2  

During the Speculator Boom, we also had a rather severe problem when some of the people who were making the really big bucks discovered they could buy their way to a place further up in the line, at the printer, pushing others back. So there were some titles that shipped late that had been on time until some a**hole with money came along with his late book.

(In a parallel problem, some of these same people also discovered a little legal loophole called "intent to use". Come up with a bunch of character names, file an "intent to use", and no one else can use those names until you release them.)

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Jonathan Stover
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Posted: 23 February 2008 at 7:38am | IP Logged | 3  

To boil everything I've been thinking about down to a handy sentence, I'd note the following: In a healthy comics marketplace, quality of product and regularity of publication are far more important than creator-name recognition.

Comics sold incredibly well for decades without anyone knowing much about who produced them. And while we think of the dawn of the Marvel Age as being creator-driven (and it was), it was the product that sold and not the names of the writers and artists. If Kirby as Kirby or Ditko as Ditko was the primary sales draw regardless of characters, then the New Gods, The Question and a host of others would have been massive successes right out of the gate.

I'm not saying creativity isn't important -- it's incredibly important. But the belief that names sold books regardless of content or character didn't firmly take hold until the 1980's, and it didn't become a self-fulfilling prophecy until the market stopped being healthy and started imploding at Warp 11 in the 1990's.

Take Neal Adams, for instance, an artist whose work I really enjoy. As a superstar artist in the early 1970's, he got the X-Men switched to reprints, Deadman cancelled and Green Lantern/Green Arrow cancelled. That's maybe the most important artist to come along since Jack Kirby or Steve Ditko!

Other worthy artists who I think, had they started in the late 1980's or early 1990's, would have been canonized as Talent That Will Drive Sales? P. Craig Russell -- Killraven cancelled. Barry Smith -- sales stay the same or even go up once he leaves Conan. Mike Kaluta -- lauded for a brief run on the Shadow and then a historical curiosity.

And I like all of those artists!

But until comic books implode to the point where Superfans outnumber casual readers, stars do not sell books simply on name and art recognition. Consistent, sustained quality can save a book or make one (the X-Men grow under Claremont/Cockrum and Claremont/Byrne), but once that quality is established, sales can chug along or even increase with a fairly wide range of talent.

But once the marketplace starts collapsing, the talent suddenly gets 'made' by the book and people start thinking that MacFarlane or Silvestri or Lee on their own can sell any book they're on. And the collector bubble fuels that belief as, in reality, casual readers flee the industry in droves.

I think my reasoning needs a bit of work. But I do know that the casual fans/readers I know never really noticed who was doing anything on a comic unless the work was really bad. Instead, they wanted to read an enjoyable issue of Iron Man or JLA or Batman or Avengers.

They didn't follow writers or artists from book to book, they picked up a title because it seemed interesting (say, Semper Fi, to use one example of a casual reader of my acquaintance).

But because comics promised entertainment on a schedule (like, say, TV), they did want those books to be there when they went to the store once a week or twice a month or whatever. To liken it to TV, once a network starts moving a show around a schedule -- or preempting it for weeks -- ratings almost inevitably start to drop. And I think comics worked exactly the same way for a long time without anyone realizing it because they always stayed on schedule.

I guess it was like hiding in plain sight!

Cheers, Jon



Edited by Jonathan Stover on 23 February 2008 at 7:41am
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John Byrne
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Posted: 23 February 2008 at 8:57am | IP Logged | 4  

(Neal Adams got) Green Lantern/Green Arrow canceled.

••

Not quite right.

As I understand it, the scenario there was not unlike how Spider-Man made his debut in AMAZING FANTASY. GREEN LANTERN was already heading for the scrap pile, so editor Julie Schwartz decided to try a "new direction" for the title. He added Green Arrow, as a character and as a part of the logo, and hired a new artist. (Denny O'Neil told me he was surprised when he saw the art. The story was written full script, and he assumed Gil Kane would draw it.) The new combination drew all kinds of critical praise, and won just about every award going, but didn't impact the sales enough to save the book.

At least, not under the system of the time, where sales reports came in almost a year after the issues.* Thus, tho sales went up, that rise (as on X-MEN) did not show until after the book had been axed.


*Take a look at comicbook publishing in the Seventies. Notice how many titles last just eleven issues. That's why.

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Brian Talley
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Posted: 23 February 2008 at 9:23am | IP Logged | 5  

Todd McFarlane will burn in Hell. Even if I have to become a devout Christian to make sure it happens!

********************************

But a Christian wouldn't want him to go to hell.

I'm mean....it's McFarlane and all, but I'm just sayin'........

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John Byrne
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Posted: 23 February 2008 at 10:25am | IP Logged | 6  

But a Christian wouldn't want him to go to hell.

••

Well, most of the burning in hell stuff comes from Jesus --- but, then, He
wasn't a Christian, was He?
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Jonathan Stover
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Posted: 23 February 2008 at 10:29am | IP Logged | 7  

I always wondered about the 11-issue thing.

I think my initial verb choice was suspect anyway -- Adams didn't get anything cancelled, but he didn't save them from cancellation, though obviously that was a product of how sales reporting worked as well.

Cheers, Jon

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Felicity Walker
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Posted: 23 February 2008 at 5:44pm | IP Logged | 8  


 QUOTE:
Todd McFarlane will burn in Hell. Even if I have to become a devout Christian to make sure it happens!


Yeah, but McFarlane will just make a deal with Malbolgia and come back. For Wanda.


Edited by Felicity Walker on 23 February 2008 at 5:54pm
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Felicity Walker
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Posted: 23 February 2008 at 5:46pm | IP Logged | 9  


 QUOTE:
Going to the DSM made late books possible.


As a former psych major, every time I see “DSM” on this forum, I think “Diagnostic and Statistical Manual” (of Mental Disorders).
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John Byrne
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Posted: 23 February 2008 at 5:48pm | IP Logged | 10  

Oddly appropriate.
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Felicity Walker
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Posted: 23 February 2008 at 5:53pm | IP Logged | 11  

IMHO, fan-favourite artists will still sell better to the casual, drop-in reader (who has no idea who they are), than will non-fan-favourite artists, provided that fan-favouritism is based on quality and not hype. For example, when I was 12 or 13 and starting to read mainstream action comics (as opposed to Archies), I had no idea who the top artists were; I just saw books that caught my eye on the rack at the comic shop, leafed through them, and if the art was good and the premise looked interesting, I’d get them. I didn’t know I was getting a John Byrne comic or a Howard Chaykin comic; I just thought, “Wow, Superman (or Blackhawk) is cool!” Back in the mid-1980s, artists who were less popular were so because they were less skilled, and tended not to persuade me to part with my money because their pictures weren’t as pretty. It wasn’t because I hadn’t heard of them; I hadn’t heard of anybody back then.


Edited by Felicity Walker on 23 February 2008 at 7:13pm
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Jason Czeskleba
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Posted: 23 February 2008 at 6:13pm | IP Logged | 12  

 Steven Myers wrote:
I'm not sure if Neal Adams, George Perez, or Carlos Pacheo ever drew 12 comics in a year. 


A quick glance at Neal's site shows that in 1971 he drew:
5 issues of Green Lantern
2 issues of Avengers
3 issues of Batman
1 issue of Brave and Bold
3 issues of Detective
4 issues of Amazing Adventures.

There might be something else I missed, too, as I just took a quick glance.  Now, some of the above stories are not full-length (the Inhumans ones in AA for example).  But some are longer than 22 pages (eg the Avengers) so it balances out.  He also produced a lot of work in 1969, 70, and 72.  Neal gets a bad rap for missing deadlines, but by today's standards he was a speed demon.
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