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Stephen Sadowski
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Posted: 13 February 2008 at 4:48pm | IP Logged | 1  

 "I loved Robin when I was a kid.  The idea of being Batman's buddy was something I instantly "got."  The Mego Robin toy was the one I always lugged around with me, and I proudly wore a Robin pin to school. "

Awww, Zaki!! We wouldve been friends!!
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Peter Svensson
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Posted: 13 February 2008 at 4:52pm | IP Logged | 2  

The sidekicks predated the kid teams.
*****
Ack. Phrased that awkwardly. Yes, they did. And oddly they seem to be something unique to comics. Heroes have had assistants before, Hercules and Gilgamesh for example. But the Shadow didn't have a Little Umbra backing him up. At least, as far as I know. Someone wiser than me can comment, but I think the sidekick as we know it originates with Robin. (Though I'm wondering about that alternate world where Kane's idea to have the sidekick be superfast was used.)

The idea to target youth with young characters was perfected with Kirby's kid gangs, and has done well with series like Power Pack or to some extent Supergirl/boy. But sidekicks as partners to their heroes was hit or miss. Wonder Woman didn't get Wonder Girl as a sidekick until Byrne's run on the title. (Impossible Tales to the contrary.) Speedy more or less vanished from Green Arrow once it became time to be relevant. Rick Jones jumped from one book to another, beloved but not really fitting in at Marvel.

Somehow, I think superpowered sidekicks work better, as you can justify why they're there a lot easier. Kid Flash always had the coolest origin in comics, at least from my POV.
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Bob Neill
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Posted: 13 February 2008 at 4:58pm | IP Logged | 3  

Kid Flash always had the coolest origin in comics, at least from my POV.

Of all the kid sidekicks whose origins happened to the 'adult version' first...Kid Flash had the coolest origin comics!

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Posted: 13 February 2008 at 5:41pm | IP Logged | 4  

This whole discussion confirms to me why I have never enjoyed "side-kick" superheroes.  I have never enjoyed the DC or Marvel incarnations.  I never liked Bucky, but I do like the Winter Soldier !  And I could never figure out why a "creature" like Batman would have a kid named "Robin" to be his partner in crime !  It's like "Space Shuttle Man" having a sidekick named "Teddy Bear."  If anything, Robin should have been named after some other creature in the bat family of species.  But Robin?  C'mon !  Robins are brown and wake people up in the morning with beautiful songs.  They don't fight crime!  It just doesn't work !

These feelings were true when I was a kid.  They are still true now that I am an adult.  When I was a kid, I wanted to be like the adults in the Fantastic Four.  When I became an adult, I appreciated (at a deeper level) the adult lives of the Fantastic Four and of course the Spider-Marriage!  Note: I live in reality now and no longer want to be Reed Richards !  At this age, comics are an escape for me in which the main characters or teams are populated by adults.

But . . . . (and this is a very important "but") I sincerely enjoy Marvel's (Heinberg & Cheung's) Young Avengers !  Why?  Because they are their own group. In many ways they have only superficial similarities to their supposed adult counterparts.  As an example, Hulkling is not a teen-age version of the Hulk.  Yes, the YA are kids, but they aren't trying to be like the Avengers.  They are making a sincere attempt to be themselves and make a difference in their battle against super-villains.  This is refreshing and I sincerely believe that Heinberg has accomplished something unique that no other comic book has done, even the Teen Titans!  And the kids in Avengers Initiative are also done well for reasons similar to YA !

By contrast, consider the Ultimate Fantastic Four.  I understand why this comic exists and what it hopes to achieve.  But for me personally, it has been the biggest disappointment I have ever experienced with Marvel ! I love the adult versions of Reed, Sue, Ben and Johnny !  But the younger, teenage versions in UFF, well, I tried the first 25 issues to be open minded, but just couldn't stay with it.  I remember reading the last page of one of my last issues and Sue was exclaiming "Mom" !  (or was it? "Dad"!)  And I thought, "I'm done!"

I hope that others have and will enjoy comics with teen age side-kicks.  Meanwhile, I will stay true to my friends who are adults, (with Y.A. & A. I. as notable exceptions ) !

PS: JB's Kristoff was the best ever "child" character to be mentored by someone in the MU, particularly Victor Von Doom !  I personally feel that JB's work on Doom/Kristoff supercedes anything done by anyone else on the Reed/Sue/Franklin/Valeria family.



Edited by Dan Walsh on 13 February 2008 at 5:53pm
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Glenn Greenberg
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Posted: 13 February 2008 at 5:45pm | IP Logged | 5  

Loved the Dick Grayson when I was a kid.

When he'd team up with Batman during the 1970s, it was always a big event
for me.


And I STILL have my Mego Robin action figure!




Edited by Glenn Greenberg on 13 February 2008 at 5:45pm
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***Avi Bastermagian
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Posted: 13 February 2008 at 11:12pm | IP Logged | 6  

I was always a huge Robin fan as a kid.. I totally identified with him rather than Batman.  I don't think that I ever thought that Dick Grayson was as good as Batman, he was still getting kidnapped and deferring to his mentor, which made him easier to relate to but still someone to look up to. 

I remember seeing a fellow student with a copy of Frank Miller's Ronin on a school bus and, at first glance, mistaking the logo for Robin.  I was so disappointed when I got a closer look and realized that it wasn't a solo book of the Boy Wonder's exploits.
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Gavin Curtis
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Posted: 14 February 2008 at 12:41am | IP Logged | 7  

Worst of all, as Feiffer also pointed out, the kid partners were created to
give the primary audience -- kids -- someone to "identify with". But the
kids wanted to identify with the adult heroes. The kid partners just got in
the way.

*****

This was always my argument in elementary education circles when the
study came out about black children supposedly showing low self-
esteem by identifying more with the white doll instead of the black one.
Anyone who has seen these doll commercials knows that the black doll
was always marginally presented in the final product shot of the white
doll lead character – the star, if you will. I conjectured that it in fact
displayed high self-esteem to identify more with Barbie, the star, as
opposed to Courtney, a bit player.
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Brian Mayer
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Posted: 14 February 2008 at 12:52am | IP Logged | 8  

The problem with Feiffer, and others like him, is that they write on supposed facts that are no more than speculation probably based on his own individual feelings and maybe a couple of his friends from childhood. I know everyone does it to a degree, I admit I do at times. The difference is we don't publish.
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Taavi Suhonen
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Posted: 14 February 2008 at 2:45am | IP Logged | 9  


 QUOTE:
But Robin?  C'mon !  Robins are brown and wake people up in the morning with beautiful songs.  They don't fight crime!  It just doesn't work !


I don't know if this has changed later, but originally Robin's name was based on Robin Hood, not the bird.
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Mike Norris
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Posted: 14 February 2008 at 3:18am | IP Logged | 10  

I always figured Kirby and Simon's "kid gangs" were based on the popularity of the Dead End Kids and Doc Savage's sidekicks.

As for Robin and the rest.  I've always liked the Teen Titans, but prefer the sidekicks as occasional guest stars in their mentors books rather than regulars

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Philippe Negrin
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Posted: 14 February 2008 at 5:47am | IP Logged | 11  

I've always HATED sidekicks and younger versions of SuperHeroes. I've always considered it was DC's specialty (I may be partially wrong) and my reason for prefering Marvel. I thought it was just laziness and lack of creativity and cheaply making the most of already existing powers and heroes. A DC Kitty Pryde would have been  Cyclops Girl or Wolverlassie.


Edited to remove unnecessary anger.


Edited by Philippe Negrin on 14 February 2008 at 5:49am
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Flavio Sapha
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Posted: 14 February 2008 at 6:38am | IP Logged | 12  

I never questioned Robin.  My intro to Batman was THE UNTOLD LEGEND OF...which shows Bruce Wayne coming up with the Robin identity while he apprenticed under detective Harvey Harris. Made a lot of sense that the Robin costume was something a kid would come up with. In the book, it´s Harvey who names Robin, after the bird.  So, Bruce was Robin before he was Batman.

Also, I loved the "Robin swears the crime-fighter oath" scene.
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