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Thanos Kollias
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 June 2004
Location: Greece
Posts: 5009
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| Posted: 28 December 2007 at 12:31am | IP Logged | 1
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Hank Pym as a wife beater is one of the stupidest things ever. Shooter was an ass for introducing this plot. One of the most interesting characters of the Avengers by far. Had I my hand in the book, Hank and Wasp would be the corner stones of the book.
As for Millar, I still haven't read something to make me like his stories. The Ultimates especially is completely undeserving of the term superHEROES. But, it's part and parcel of the current dominating mentality. Most "hot" writers focus on the "super" and forget all about the "heroes" part. Unfortunately, sometimes they forget about "super" as well, as if they are limited by budget...
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Rod Collins
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: Australia
Posts: 936
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| Posted: 28 December 2007 at 1:04am | IP Logged | 2
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It's a shame all the good work by Kurt Busiek, in regards to restoring and redeeming Hank and stabilising his relationship Jan, had to be undone by lazy writing and poor editorial decisions.
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Ron Chevrier
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 1641
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| Posted: 28 December 2007 at 1:27am | IP Logged | 3
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Bear in mind that the beating incident was a one-time only event, intended to demonstrate how far Hank had slipped (or had been pushed). It had more to do with how unstable he was at the time than the man he has been since that particular incident.
To make him the Avengers' scapegoat as is currently happening in the title, is not only wrong, but it does a disservice to the characters. How can any writer have Ms. Marvel or the Wasp question Pym's qualifications, sanity, or moral judgment, when they are working for Iron Man, the person who got CAPTAIN FRIKKIN" AMERICA killed because of his registration nonsense? One of the most prominent geniuses in the Marvel Universe is wearing a suit of armor that Ultron takes over and remakes with ease, and the Avengers are leery of HANK PYM?
I call bullshit.
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Scott McKeeve
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 11 November 2007
Posts: 835
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| Posted: 28 December 2007 at 1:35am | IP Logged | 4
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"How can any writer have Ms. Marvel or the Wasp question Pym's qualifications"
Not to mention Ms. Marvel/Warbird is also a recovering alcoholic who jeopardized Avengers missions with her behavior. If Carol was truly in recovery, she would not be so quick to judge another person's failings and attempt at redemption.
But once again, that is now swept under the rug and Hank Pym is the bad guy that cannot be forgiven.
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Ron Chevrier
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 1641
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| Posted: 28 December 2007 at 1:54am | IP Logged | 5
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At least Ultimate Hank Pym was introduced as a dick pretty much from the start, so I would naturally expect his road to redemption (if such a thing should occur) to be agonizing and fraught with difficulty.
There is no reason that this should be the case with original Hank. He is not a serial wife-beater, and never has been. He had a moment of weakness and mental instability. Should that single episode wipe out the 40+ years in which Hank Pym has behaved in a heroic and honorable manner? He has more than payed for his sins, and Bendis mishandling of the characters is cheapening his stature in the Marvel Universe.
Edited by Ron Chevrier on 28 December 2007 at 2:02am
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Francesco Vanagolli
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 03 June 2005
Location: Italy
Posts: 3130
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| Posted: 28 December 2007 at 2:14am | IP Logged | 6
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Two things amaze me:
1) Hank was a "wife beater" something like 25 years ago and ONCE. Yup, he hit Jan, but that's a MOMENT in the whole editorial life of a character. And the writers still stay "pasted" to that moment.
2) One writer tells that things are goin' well between Jan and Hank. The following one tells that Hank is still the usual wife beater. Then the following restores the original situation... Get - one - decision - please.
Oh, I first met Hank and Jan in those 2 MTU issues drawn by JB. That was a hero (with a wonderful costume, I'd say).... that was what I, 12 years old, wanted to see.
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Martin Redmond
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 June 2006
Posts: 3882
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| Posted: 28 December 2007 at 7:37am | IP Logged | 7
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I don't think there's anything truly wrong with him being outed as one. Many families dealing with domestic violence look perfectly all right. They have their little facade so good you can barely tell, then all of a sudden bambam the abuse starts or you're a witness. In a way, though it ruins a character, it's a good way to show kids that these things can happen to anyone and can be done by anyone. Even someone you trust and that it's wrong.
However, I think it's kind of total bullshit right now with the Howard Stern minus figures IQ level atmosphere reigning right now. It's hard to tell if it's done to denounce violence or to turn on the stupid readers.
Edited by Martin Redmond on 28 December 2007 at 7:37am
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Ed Love
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 05 October 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 2712
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| Posted: 28 December 2007 at 8:19am | IP Logged | 8
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I think doing a spousal abuse story is fine. It's important such stories be
told. However, it should not have been done with a superhero as the
abuser in a mainstream book like The Avengers. That's a violation of the
genre. I think ultimately Busiek did a disservice in bringing it up again
and making his mental issues the driving plot devices for that character.
And Chuck Austen didn't do the characters any favors by playing him as a
chump and having the Wasp and Hawkeye getting it on.
Not too long ago no one batted an eye when one of the top fighters in the
DCU struck their significant other out of anger (not a hint of mental
illness to explain it away either). In this case it was Black Canary punching
Green Arrow.
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Derek Muthart
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 10 September 2005
Posts: 1018
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| Posted: 28 December 2007 at 8:33am | IP Logged | 9
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I see the deconstruction trend continues to be viewed as raw and edgey when it's really just old and lazy.
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Victor Rodgers
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 December 2004
Posts: 3508
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| Posted: 28 December 2007 at 8:45am | IP Logged | 10
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That Shooter story was taking a square and pounding it into a triangle. That story would not be nearly as well remembered if not for the salvage job Roger Stern, Steve Englehart and later John Byrne did.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133248
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| Posted: 28 December 2007 at 9:18am | IP Logged | 11
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Hank's "instability" was born out of a strange dichotomy of thought up at Marvel in the 70s and early 80s. This was when the influx of fans-turned-pro really started to take hold, and noises were heard in the corridors which before had been the province of fandom. Among these were the debates of time in the MU. "How long has it been since the FF went up in that rocket?" Some said real time. Some said "no time" (comicbook time), and some said seven years. The Seven Year Rule gained a degree of popularity, but for some that just meant everything had to be run under the microscope. "SO Hank Pym has had all these different identities in just seven years?? He must be nuts!" And then, of course, there are those who insist on writing him as "nuts".Much the same thing happened to Batman.
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Paulo Pereira
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 24 April 2006
Posts: 15539
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| Posted: 28 December 2007 at 9:30am | IP Logged | 12
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QUOTE:
I think doing a spousal abuse story is fine. It's important such stories be
told. |
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In a superhero book?
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Topic Closed)
